Well, what is the current rule regarding compulsory (white) bus stops?

Up to a few years ago the rule was clear, even if frequently flouted.
LT publicity clearly stated that at compulsory bus stops all day buses
would stop without being signalled. Then bus drivers started to get
more aggressive in ignoring the distinction and brushing aside
complaints from passengers, often denying that there was any such rule
(‘I’m a bus driver so I should know’ was one response I received).
Around the same time any reference to compulsory bus stops disappeared
from LT publicity, and subsequently several posts here and elsewhere
referred to the demise of the rule.

Being a fairly literal sort of chap, my take is that the rule has not
been expressly countermanded and so it is still theoretically in
force. The other day when I (inadvertently) fell foul of the practice
again I complained to London Buses, and received a response which
included the words:

“During training, drivers are instructed to stop at all white
compulsory stops and to be fully alert and aware of passengers wishing
to board at red request stops. I am sorry you have had reason to
report the contrary on this occasion.”

So it seems the rule is still in force. It would be nice if London
Buses acknowledged this in their publicity, and even nicer if drivers
observed it!

Peter

"peter" wrote in message
...
Well, what is the current rule regarding compulsory (white) bus stops?

Up to a few years ago the rule was clear, even if frequently flouted.
LT publicity clearly stated that at compulsory bus stops all day buses
would stop without being signalled. Then bus drivers started to get
more aggressive in ignoring the distinction and brushing aside
complaints from passengers, often denying that there was any such rule
(‘I’m a bus driver so I should know’ was one response I received).
Around the same time any reference to compulsory bus stops disappeared
from LT publicity, and subsequently several posts here and elsewhere
referred to the demise of the rule.

Being a fairly literal sort of chap, my take is that the rule has not
been expressly countermanded and so it is still theoretically in
force. The other day when I (inadvertently) fell foul of the practice
again I complained to London Buses, and received a response which
included the words:

“During training, drivers are instructed to stop at all white
compulsory stops and to be fully alert and aware of passengers wishing
to board at red request stops. I am sorry you have had reason to
report the contrary on this occasion.”

So it seems the rule is still in force. It would be nice if London
Buses acknowledged this in their publicity, and even nicer if drivers
observed it!

Peter

The word "compulsory" disappered from the stop signs years ago. Not yet
replaced with "pot luck" but should be!

MaxB

On 20 Mar, 09:22, "Batman55" wrote:
"peter" wrote in message

Well, what is the current rule regarding compulsory (white) bus stops?

Up to a few years ago the rule was clear, even if frequently flouted.
LT publicity clearly stated that at compulsory bus stops all day buses
would stop without being signalled.

Peter

The word "compulsory" disappered from the stop signs years ago. Not yet
replaced with "pot luck" but should be!

It seems a bit of a stupid rule, really, and just bound to cause
confusion. Why not just make signalling for the bus mandatory at all
stops? No point in a bus stopping at a stop if no one's waiting just
because someone in an office somewhere has designated it "compulsory".

Patrick

peter wrote:
Well, what is the current rule regarding compulsory (white) bus stops?

Good question. There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be
treated as a hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal"
practice. Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes
to board.

2) If a passenger wishes to alight, they SHOULD ring the bell.

Cheers,

Barry

In message , at 11:25:20 on Fri, 20
Mar 2009, Barry Salter remarked:
There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be treated as a
hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal" practice.
Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes
to board.

2) If a passenger wishes to alight, they SHOULD ring the bell.

I agree strongly with #2, but #1 is a bit of a problem if a route has
several buses that someone might be wanting to catch, and there's the
risk of five "wrong" buses being forced to stop needlessly for every
"right" bus.
--
Roland Perry

On Mar 20, 11:57*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:25:20 on Fri, 20
Mar 2009, Barry Salter remarked:

There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be treated as a
hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal" practice.
Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes
to board.

2) If a passenger wishes to alight, they SHOULD ring the bell.

I agree strongly with #2, but #1 is a bit of a problem if a route has
several buses that someone might be wanting to catch, and there's the
risk of five "wrong" buses being forced to stop needlessly for every
"right" bus.
--
Roland Perry

I think that's why the idea was abandoned; many of the responses to
the consultation must have been similar to what you just said

The trouble is that someone in an ivory tower may assume that, having
not implemented the proposal, we still have a compulsory/request
distinction.

But in practice, for years now, you have to signal or ring at every
stop or the bus is likely not to stop.

The mystery is why the still make stops in two colours.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:25:20 on Fri, 20 Mar
2009, Barry Salter remarked:
There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be treated as a
hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal" practice.
Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes to
board.

2) If a passenger wishes to alight, they SHOULD ring the bell.

I agree strongly with #2, but #1 is a bit of a problem if a route has
several buses that someone might be wanting to catch, and there's the risk
of five "wrong" buses being forced to stop needlessly for every "right"
bus.
--
Roland Perry

Yes, and the bus you actually want sneaks round the outside and departs in a
cloud of dust, or spray!

MaxB

In message of Fri, 20 Mar 2009
13:00:23 in uk.transport.london, Batman55 writes
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:25:20 on Fri, 20 Mar
2009, Barry Salter remarked:
There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be treated as a
hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal" practice.
Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes to
board.

[snip]


Yes, and the bus you actually want sneaks round the outside and departs in a
cloud of dust, or spray!

I was on a 76 which did this in February 2007 at Aldwych.
I was advised it should not happen.
I can't quote the details as Arriva responded to my email by snail mail.
It is curious that TfL's contractors don't seem able to reply by email.
--
Walter Briscoe

On Mar 20, 8:27*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:52:05 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On Mar 20, 11:57*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:25:20 on Fri, 20
Mar 2009, Barry Salter remarked:

There was a proposal floated that ALL bus stops would be treated as a
hybrid of the two types, based on observation of "normal" practice.
Namely:

1) All buses SHOULD stop at a bus stop if it looks like someone wishes
to board.

2) If a passenger wishes to alight, they SHOULD ring the bell.

Yes this was the basis of a consultation exercise last year together
with a separate one related to hail and ride services.

I think that's why the idea was abandoned; many of the responses to
the consultation must have been similar to what you just said

Has the idea been abandoned? *I've seen nothing to say that it had been
- in fact I'd read on another group that the new policy had actually
been implemented. *Not saying you have it wrong btw - do have something
from TfL to say the proposal has been scrapped?

Well, perhaps not, but I certainly haven't noticed one saying it's
being implemented, which would be more likely to be newsworthy.


The trouble is that someone in an ivory tower may assume that, having
not implemented the proposal, we still have a compulsory/request
distinction.

Seemingly we do given the response quoted from another poster in this
thread.

But in practice, for years now, you have to signal or ring at every
stop or the bus is likely not to stop.

I agree with this and that's why the consultation proposal to make this
mandatory for every stop makes a great deal of sense.

Yes, because at least everyone would know what the rule was. It's
unlikely that punters in general understand what the situation is
meant to be, although they may have cottoned on to what is required.

Most of us grew up with the distinction and assumed that the
continuing use of different colours represented "compulsory" and
"request" even if those words aren't printed on the stops.

Thus one ends up miffed if one is standing by the door in Cockspur
Street, passing a white-coloured stop in the rush hour, and gets
whisked off down Whitehall for not actually dinging the dinger.


The mystery is why the still make stops in two colours.

They don't - the stop at Bream Close (just before Tottenham Hale
station) was a red request stop fixed to a lamp post. However it was
recently replaced with a proper bus stop pole topped with a brand new
white bus stop flag. * The other place to check would be the unique
sections of new route 228.

I hadn't noticed that ... but really it should be down to punters to
notice an unannounced change. I am genuinely confused. Has there
been a change and, if so, is it a change of the rules to reflect
reality, or is it a change to a third way between old rule and current
practice, in which case is it likely to change current practice ...?

I'll keep on sticking me arm out and dinging.

Paul Corfield wrote in
:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 05:52:05 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

But in practice, for years now, you have to signal or ring at every
stop or the bus is likely not to stop.

I agree with this and that's why the consultation proposal to make
this mandatory for every stop makes a great deal of sense.

Absolutely.

I'm intrigued how the OP could fall foul of the practice "again" - surely
after the first time you would learn to always signal?