Depresion wrote:

"Martin2" wrote in message
...

Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it
is
likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not
having
to queue at the ferry port or having to drive.

That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar
terminal on public transport
with two children and assorted luggage in tow

Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to Paris
than take the train to London.

It is.
But flying to Paris doesn't get you to Bruges :-(

And anyway, Paris is French so that's even more reason not to go there.

John B

Depresion wrote:

"JohnB" wrote in message ...


Buster wrote:

How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted
from car drivers on something completely radical like building new
underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium.

Or investing more in a good reliable PT system.

For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey
to that city.

We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13
miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out
of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed
into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you
arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants
around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk.
No Stress at all.

None? You jest.
Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels it is
likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey.

.....I'm less than 40 miles from an airport so I would
hop on a flight for 1/2 the cost of a train fare to London and use the remaining
1/2 to hire a car for the time I'm over there.

So where is the airport in Bruges and what's the flight fare?

John B

On 8 Oct 2003 15:54:35 -0700, (Jeff Lewis
UK) wrote:


We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer,
and not everyone can cycle to work.

Jeff

Marvellous. So once you've built these underground roads, where are
you going to park the cars?

"Underground roads for London" is not new thinking - you'd find this
if you'd bothered to look.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Robert Woolley wrote:
On 8 Oct 2003 15:54:35 -0700, (Jeff Lewis
UK) wrote:

We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the
answer, and not everyone can cycle to work.

Marvellous. So once you've built these underground roads, where are
you going to park the cars?

Underground car parks?

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

"Jeff Lewis UK" wrote in message
om...
How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted
from car drivers on something completely radical like building new
underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium.

We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize
harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all.

Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground
railway system, we in the 21st century can build
an underground road system.

For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey
to that city.

We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13
miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out
of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed
into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you
arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants
around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk.
No Stress at all.

Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that
a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the
maximum stress and the minimum value.

We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer,
and not everyone can cycle to work.

No you are wrong. Bruges definately cannot be compared to London.

The problem is that even if we did want to build an underground motorway
network for London, we would have to build so many roads to satisfy demand
that they would basically have to be everywhere at extreme cost (probably
over £100 billion).

Undergound roads are dangerous, difficult to ventilate and have much lower
capacity than a tube line, and besides, London is far too big to have just
one central car park - that only works in cities where everything is within
walking distance of each other.

The tube is the only viable transport option for a large city. Even the
car-loving Americans know this - New York city has no underground motorways
in the centre, but does have an extensive subway system.

There are possible options to help with congestion such as overpasses or
underpasses at critical junctions (like on the A40), but a new road building
scheme would be very expensive and in the long run wouldn't really help, as
people just adapt their commuting patterns.

Jeff

"JohnB" wrote in message ...

So where is the airport in Bruges and what's the flight fare?

The airport is "Ostend Bruges International Airport" about 15 - 20 miles out
(depending on where in Bruges you are), not far in a hire car, Ryanair is
offering it for 99p out and £9.99 return flying out on a Wed and back the
following Fri or 99p each way on the Thur plus taxes brings it to a total of
£22.83 per person. (I probably wouldn't fly with them but they have an easy
booking service for price checks.)

"JohnB" wrote in message ...


Depresion wrote:

"Martin2" wrote in message
...

Now had you jumped on Eurostar and simply crossed platforms in Brussels
it
is
likely you would have ha a much more pleasant journey. Just think, not
having
to queue at the ferry port or having to drive.

That ignores the pleasure you would get from getting to the Eurostar
terminal on public transport
with two children and assorted luggage in tow

Isn't it sad that it's often quicker and almost always cheaper to fly to
Paris
than take the train to London.

It is.
But flying to Paris doesn't get you to Bruges :-(

No but I've never flown to Bruges it was just an example.

And anyway, Paris is French so that's even more reason not to go there.

Good point unless you have to go then don't bother it's rather like London be
people are rude to you in a different language.

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
. ..

Have any of these traffic planners ever been out to observe
the potential carnage that they are inflicting upon road users?
Even the construction companies installing them reckon that
they are lethal and more dangerous
than installing simple, cheap speed humps.

What would the construction companies know?

Every traffic measure is monitored by the responsible authority six months
before and after its installation. If they were lethal, they would not be
still installing them.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Boston, whose metrolpolitan area admittedly contain less people than
London (~2m I think) has undertaken a project locally called the Big
Dig to create a set of road tunnels under part of the city.
(www.bigdig.com). Apparently its going to be very good but has caused
them no end of chaos for the last few years and in terms of cost to
the public purse its second only to a big big dam project in China on
a global basis - would you be willing to foot a similar bill in London
?



On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:49:56 +0000 (UTC), "Oliver Keating"
wrote:


"Jeff Lewis UK" wrote in message
. com...
How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted
from car drivers on something completely radical like building new
underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium.

We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize
harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all.

Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground
railway system, we in the 21st century can build
an underground road system.

For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey
to that city.

We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13
miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out
of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed
into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you
arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants
around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk.
No Stress at all.

Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that
a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the
maximum stress and the minimum value.

We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer,
and not everyone can cycle to work.

No you are wrong. Bruges definately cannot be compared to London.

The problem is that even if we did want to build an underground motorway
network for London, we would have to build so many roads to satisfy demand
that they would basically have to be everywhere at extreme cost (probably
over £100 billion).

Undergound roads are dangerous, difficult to ventilate and have much lower
capacity than a tube line, and besides, London is far too big to have just
one central car park - that only works in cities where everything is within
walking distance of each other.

The tube is the only viable transport option for a large city. Even the
car-loving Americans know this - New York city has no underground motorways
in the centre, but does have an extensive subway system.

There are possible options to help with congestion such as overpasses or
underpasses at critical junctions (like on the A40), but a new road building
scheme would be very expensive and in the long run wouldn't really help, as
people just adapt their commuting patterns.

Jeff

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On 8 Oct 2003 15:54:35 -0700, (Jeff Lewis
UK) wrote:


"Underground roads for London" is not new thinking - you'd find this
if you'd bothered to look.


But it is thinking that's not been tried.
(Though I think it would be rather unfeasible)