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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Conor Turton" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Jonathan Marten - Volume Systems Products UK" wrote in message ... It must be nice to have so much money to spare. It is. Perhaps you too could reduce the amount you spend on the car per year by 1000s Anyone can but it all depends on what they're prepared to drive and how shallow they are. Often only about a quarter of an inch. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote:
In article , says... But if you already own a car (like wot most families do) then those are sunk costs and irrelevant to the decision. But I don't and the costs *would* be relevant. Several thousand pounds of releavance I'd guess. Only if you're an idiot. My last two cars have cost me £300 each and lasted me over 18 months a piece. My brother does that. Buys ****e old cars and when people say "What about the reliability" he replies if it breaks, I'll buy another one. And strangely, most of them last a good few years before succumbing. Very high mileage for age seems to be the answer. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote the following in:
In article , says... But you don't have to shell out several thousand for a car, money for road tax, some for insurance, and more for maintenance of the car. You can buy a car with tax and MOT at an auction for £50. You can insure said car for a day for a tenner. Where can you get insurance like that? -- message by Robin May, consumer of liquids Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing". Hacker is to computer as boy racer is to Ford Escort. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Robin May" wrote in message ... Conor Turton wrote the following in: In article , says... But you don't have to shell out several thousand for a car, money for road tax, some for insurance, and more for maintenance of the car. You can buy a car with tax and MOT at an auction for £50. You can insure said car for a day for a tenner. Where can you get insurance like that? Have you tried ringing a broker? They are normally a good place to look for insurance. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Conor Turton" wrote in message . .. In article , says... The _standard_ fare from _my_ local station in Chester to London starts at 90 pounds per adult. Recent advert of some Midlands railway company made me laugh...reducing fares to London from Warwickshire from £90 to £70 return PER DAY. £15 by Chiltern Railways on their Just15 scheme. Why does anybody use Virgin? |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
PeterE wrote:
But if you already own a car (like wot most families do) then those are sunk costs and irrelevant to the decision. Excellent. Getting to work must be free then - I already have a train ticket. -- Chris Lambert (http://web.trout-fish.org.uk/) The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The distinction is yours to draw. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:39:50 +0100, Chris Lambert wrote:
But if you already own a car (like wot most families do) then those are sunk costs and irrelevant to the decision. Excellent. Getting to work must be free then - I already have a train ticket. No, but say you had an annual travelcard, and then on a whim decided to go into central london for a weekend. Traveling on your travelcard would be free. You're pricing an incremental trip. Unless you dont have a car, you have a car - its obvious I know, however most families do have a car. The cost of time depreciation, insurance, tax and mot, is the same whether its in the drive for the weekend, or its being used. The cost is the depreciation of added miles, the wear and tear and petrol. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JNugent wrote: JohnB ) wrote: PeterE wrote: A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? I fully agree. It was a stupid example to quote, but not unexpected given the source. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... The fare from my local station in Hampshire to London, 2 adults 4 children is £51.50. How can I get to Paris for less? Easyjet. Please let me know how then? - for six people. I think it might be difficult AFAIK Easyjet don't fly from Hampshire. Unless of course you know differently. Well? John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JohnB wrote:
JNugent wrote: JohnB ) wrote: PeterE wrote: A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? I fully agree. It was a stupid example to quote, but not unexpected given the source. Why is it a stupid example? If I need to travel to London on business by train, and am not in a position to book in advance, that is the price I have to pay. And plenty of businesses (although relatively few private individuals) *do* pay that fare. Similarly ludicrous fares apply from many other cities. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect." |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... Can you get from Manchester to London return same day in a hire car for less than £20? You can't get from Manchester to London return same day on the train for under £20 either. You can - at least you could a couple of days ago when I checked. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... That's not bad. Unfortunately it would cost me and the family £80 return for the fare to Stansted (4 hour-ish journey) plus the trouble of crossing London. Should've used a car... Wrong answer. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:52:15 +0100, Pete Smith
wrote: No option? I don't know which inter city trains run from Chester, but the last time I tried via train to London, the only option appeared to be Virgin (who as usual, swore blind there were no Advance tickets available). In the end, we used local trains all the way down for about 50 quid per person, but it was deeply unpleasant. Sounds like the Saver fare, which would have been valid on VT as well (off-peak, though) - or did you split tickets? Which way did you go, OOI? Best way may have been fNW (now W&B) to Birmingham[1], then walk across to Moor St and Chiltern to London. [1] Not running through at the moment, I understand, but normally they would be - and there's always Chester-Brum via Wrexham. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JohnB wrote:
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... Can you get from Manchester to London return same day in a hire car for less than £20? You can't get from Manchester to London return same day on the train for under £20 either. You can - at least you could a couple of days ago when I checked. Wrong - it's £175 per person, standard class. Try the National Rail Enquiries website: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/planmyjourney/ -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect." |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:57:25 +0100, "PeterE"
wrote: Wrong - it's £175 per person, standard class. Try the National Rail Enquiries website: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/planmyjourney/ Only if... 1) You don't book in advance; 2) You travel in both directions in the peak (if either way is off-peak, an open single one way and Saver single the other will be cheaper). You can do it for a *lot* less if you book in advance or travel in at least one direction off-peak. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Paul Weaver wrote:
No, but say you had an annual travelcard, and then on a whim decided to go into central london for a weekend. Traveling on your travelcard would be free. No, the trip would still not be free. It would just reduce the cost per journey of all trips. There would still have been a cost related to the journey. In the same way, when considering the cost of travelling by car you need to include all related costs, even if the money was actually spent in the past. -- Chris Lambert (http://web.trout-fish.org.uk/) If oranges smell like chicken, why are tomatoes blue? Think about it! |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Chris Lambert wrote:
Paul Weaver wrote: No, but say you had an annual travelcard, and then on a whim decided to go into central london for a weekend. Traveling on your travelcard would be free. No, the trip would still not be free. It would just reduce the cost per journey of all trips. There would still have been a cost related to the journey. Literally true, but not responsive. I have a montly Travelcard because I need it to commute to work, and I save money merely on the 20 to 23 return journeys in a month. Consequently, any extra trips I happen to take are effectively free. -- James Farrar | London, SE13 | |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
In article , says...
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... That's not bad. Unfortunately it would cost me and the family £80 return for the fare to Stansted (4 hour-ish journey) plus the trouble of crossing London. Should've used a car... Wrong answer. Why, because its right? -- Conor Hi. This is my friend, Jack ****, and you don't know him. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
In article ,
says... Conor Turton wrote the following in: In article , says... But you don't have to shell out several thousand for a car, money for road tax, some for insurance, and more for maintenance of the car. You can buy a car with tax and MOT at an auction for £50. You can insure said car for a day for a tenner. Where can you get insurance like that? Pick any broker. My brother does it now and again when he comes to visit. -- Conor Hi. This is my friend, Jack ****, and you don't know him. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... Conor Turton wrote: In article , says... That's not bad. Unfortunately it would cost me and the family £80 return for the fare to Stansted (4 hour-ish journey) plus the trouble of crossing London. Should've used a car... Wrong answer. Why, because its right? Nope. Because even if you ignore the fact that just the journey to Stansted would be longer that the whole train trip to Belgium, the overall fare is more expensive. The car is not always the answer tho' many seem to want to believe so. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:14:42 +0100, JohnB wrote:
The car is not always the answer tho' many seem to want to believe so. No, but it usually is |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Paul Weaver wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:14:42 +0100, JohnB wrote: The car is not always the answer tho' many seem to want to believe so. No, but it usually is No, it usually isn't. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"PeterE" wrote in message ... A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. Are you really trying to say car hire, for two people, is dearer than that? Are you sane? You posted that at 11:48, so literally "now" .... at that point, it would have been £50. Approx the cost of 2 day's parking. AND the reason why its 175 quid when you leave between 7am and 9am, is because people will pay for it. You wouldn't want to "buck the market" would you? |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JNugent" wrote in message ... JohnB ) wrote: PeterE wrote: A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? The trains that cost that much are pretty much full. Every one of them not sensible? Its perhaps a problem with the free market that people do not always behave in a sensible way, but some poor sods do have to go to london. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
W K wrote...
"JNugent" wrote: JohnB ) wrote: PeterE wrote: A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? The trains that cost that much are pretty much full. Every one of them not sensible? Or every one of them not paying. Its perhaps a problem with the free market that people do not always behave in a sensible way Spoken like a true pimply-faced 15-yr-old who thinks he's the life and soul of the party in the back row of the first lesson of the Economics GCSE course. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JNugent" wrote in message ... W K wrote... "JNugent" wrote: JohnB ) wrote: PeterE wrote: A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? The trains that cost that much are pretty much full. Every one of them not sensible? Or every one of them not paying. Some of them must be paying. Those who are not can fully justify it to the accounts department. Its perhaps a problem with the free market that people do not always behave in a sensible way Spoken snip Irrational and ad-homineum abuse You lose, norm. In what way would you disagree with the above? The 175 pounds is fully justifyable as "you can't buck the market". |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:17:58 +0100, JohnB wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:14:42 +0100, JohnB wrote: The car is not always the answer tho' many seem to want to believe so. No, but it usually is No, it usually isn't. Perhaps I should rephrase. For certain people the car usually is the best solution. For a lot of people the car is usually a good solution. Most people dont consider other options and just go for the car automatically. For you and me, living in the middle of the heavenly public transport system that is London - night busses, mass transit every few minutes etc. Then the car is unneccersary for many journeys. For the majority of people that dont live in London, the car is essential. I'd like to know how you would get to your local station, 30 miles away, with 4 trains a day (none on sundays), when the bus leaves at 7:30 and gets back at 20:00 on tuesdays and Fridays, without using the car. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JNugent" wrote in message ... wrote: "JNugent" wrote: [snip old attibutions:] A standard class return from Manchester to London is £175 now, you know. So what. Exactly. Soince no-one sensible would even think of paying that much - per person - for such a journey, so what? The trains that cost that much are pretty much full. Every one of them not sensible? Or every one of them not paying. Some of them must be paying. Those who are not can fully justify it to the accounts department. You'd have to have no sense of values to all to pay £175 for such a journey. It's cheaper on the BA Shuttle. But from your own economic perspective it _must_ be better to take the train than fly. People do it. You could even take a taxi... It would be a horrendous journey. Its perhaps a problem with the free market that people do not always behave in a sensible way Spoken snip Irrational and ad-homineum abuse The so-called "Irrational and ad-homineum abuse" was no more than an straightforward analysis and characterisation of what you had written. No, you relate disagreeing with a theory as smart-arse-spotty kidism. Irrational and ad-homineum stereotyping of a position you disagree with. Here it is again: [in respnse to: "Its perhaps a problem with the free market that people do not always behave in a sensible way" - the first reaction of so many who don't even want to understand the theory of rational decision-making:] It's just one theory, and its flawed. Anyone who has studied (or taught) Economics will immediately have recognised your syndrome - if not from their own reaction, then certainly from the reaction of class-mates. It's as well-known as the class wag telling the teacher that "respect has to be earned, Miss". [You are such a master of all things that we must not question your views? dick ] So, this theory, is the only theory and its cast in stone is it? Are you saying that no-one ever makes bad decisions and this never ever arses up the economy. There are many examples of this happening. Its happening right now. What you seem to be saying, is that because I question a theory I am a spotty smartarse. Its also an aspect of usenet-loonism and also the ability to think freely and come to a decision based on real understanding - the kind of thing that got industry moving in different and efficient ways through the years. As I have often said, you seem to be some grey suited "norm" sheep that does not want to think for yourself, and just want to swallow a flawed theory that suits your dodgy political thoughts. I don't disagree with the bits I wrote, and I don't even disagree with all the bits that others wrote. John Buckley was right, for one. The 175 pounds is fully justifyable as "you can't buck the market". If you think £175 for a one-person fare from Manchester to London (even if it is a return) is "justifiable", then please feel free to pay it. I'm not paying it, but its obviously justifyable, as people do. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Paul Weaver wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:17:58 +0100, JohnB wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:14:42 +0100, JohnB wrote: The car is not always the answer tho' many seem to want to believe so. No, but it usually is No, it usually isn't. Perhaps I should rephrase. For certain people the car usually is the best solution. For a lot of people the car is usually a good solution. OK. Most people dont consider other options and just go for the car automatically. I think that is at the crux of the problems. Most people are so wedded to their car that they have become blind to alternatives, so much so that they feel under threat when ideas are put to them. Note some of the responses by the most obsessed petrolheads who accuse anyone who dares hint at other options as being anti-car. Ride a bike, walk, take a bus or a train and you are immediately branded as the arch demon out to purge the world of peoples freedoms. For you and me, living in the middle of the heavenly public transport system that is London - night busses, mass transit every few minutes etc. Well there you are very very wrong. I don't live in London and never have. I live in a semi-rural area with relatively poor bus and train services - hourly at most to the nearest town of any size, and a handful in the evenings and Sundays. Then the car is unneccersary for many journeys. For the majority of people that dont live in London, the car is essential. They often mistakenly _believe_ that it is essential to own a private car. So long as they do not affect my life style then that is their choice. Unfortunately, many of their resultant activities do. I'd like to know how you would get to your local station, 30 miles away, with 4 trains a day (none on sundays), when the bus leaves at 7:30 and gets back at 20:00 on tuesdays and Fridays, without using the car. That must be an extreme situation. Where is it? And how many people live within the catchment area of the station? John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"W K" writes:
"Jonathan Marten - Volume Systems Products UK" wrote in message ... It must be nice to have so much money to spare. It is. I know that too. See, we can both be smug. Perhaps you too could reduce the amount you spend on the car per year by 1000s Possibly, but what would be the point of doing that? I'd far prefer to spend money on a comfortable reliable car that will take me anywhere at any time of the day and any day of the year, than waste it on public transport which may occasionally run on time and all the way to the destination (at the whim of the staff and weather) but more often fails to deliver. -- Jonathan Marten, SCM Team Engineer VSP at GMP, UK Sun Microsystems "Progress is not expedited by frequent requests for progress reports" |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:08:45 +0100, JohnB wrote:
Ride a bike, walk, take a bus or a train and you are immediately branded as the arch demon out to purge the world of peoples freedoms. I certainly don't think that. Preach that others should follow your lifestyle though and you are the arch demon. Goes both ways too. have. I live in a semi-rural area with relatively poor bus and train services - hourly at most to the nearest town of any size, and a handful in the evenings and Sundays. How do you do your weekly shopping then? 4 people in a house can total 20 bags - wouldnt like to carry them 5 miles home. Wouldn't like to carry them on the bus either! That must be an extreme situation. Where is it? And how many people live Of course it's an extreme situation, just wanted to see if you would agree that sometimes a car is neccersary. Heres some anecdotal evidence: I used to live in an estate outside Warrington, about 5000 people within a 2 mile radius. We had half-hourly busses until about 22:00, and a mainline station with a local train to Warrington or Manchester every hour (10 minutes to Warrington, 30 minutes to Manchester), and an express train about 10 minutes before the local (5 mins/ 20 mins). However to get to work on public transport, my Dad would ahve had to 1) Bike or Bus 2 miles to the station (10 minutes) 2) Train (0x:50) to Manchester (20 minutes) 3) Train to Walkden (20 minutes) 4) Bus or Walk to offices (20 minutes) Add waiting arround. To be in for 09:10 he'd have to leave at 07:40, to be in for half eight (usual time), He'd have to leave at 06:45. Those are the only two options. Driving, it took him 20 minutes, 30 on a bad day, so he didnt have to leave until 8AM to be in for 8:30. Didnt get stuck commuting on a train in worse conditions then cattle either. Similarly I went to school in Altrincham - to be in for 08:40, it meant a 07:20 departure. In the car - 25 minutes, 40 on a bad day, meaning leaving at 8AM, 40 minutes after the train, got me in with plenty of time. My Mum - Oldham - started work at 10:00 to miss the traffic, leaving at 9:30. The train? She'd have to leave at 08:05, takes 1h 40 minutes, 4 times longer then the car journey on a normal day, and an hour longer then a busy day. Public transport is great, when it goes 1) Where you want to go 2) When you want to go Of course a car is more comfortable then a commuter train, although I enjoy my 50 minutes on the tube every morning, get a chance to read! I love public transport when it's right for me, less stress then a car. I do miss the radio though. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:51:47 +0100, "JNugent"
wrote: driving - but don't let's get hung up on it - it *was* only a suggestion to show how ridiculous a rail fare of £175 for such a journey really is. I wouldn't suggest a taxi for that sort of journey (at least, not for just one passenger, except ias a distress purchase). Is 175.00 such an outrageous price to pay for a train journey to London from Manchester ? when you think of all the people on very high wages (thanks to the unions) who are involved for someone to be able to make that journey train staff booking clerks platform staff signal men not to mention all the expense of maintaining the permanent way these things don't come cheap . Grant |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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