Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

derek wrote:

All what roadbuilding? The motorways in Scotland were complete (all
but 15 miles) before 1970. That's to all intents and puposes 35 years
ago. As I said it's like driving round the old East Germany. And now
like any old system maintenance is a big source of downtime. Let's
face it every other system that's tried to run using 35 year old
infrastructure has bitten the dust (The Mills, The Mines, The
Steelworks, USW, USW.)


The extension of the M74/A74(M) south to Gretna largely took place in the
1990s. Likewise the building of the M77. And the upgrading of the A90
between Perth and Aberdeen.

You were saying?

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:28:55 -0000, "Clive George"
wrote:
I thought you wanted cheap labour from abroad?
Quite but people who are willing to earn their keep not people who can
only say Benefits Agency in english when they arrive .
Grant .

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

To continue to build roads will continue the problem. The answer is
puvblic transport, but public transport cannot cater for all journeys
and therefore over time journeys will need to become more
corridored.

What exactly do you mean by "more corridored"? Most long distance journeys
are already corridored into the rail and motorway networks.

For example go into any city during the am peak and the tidality
of the flow is there to be seen.

Yes, commuting into city centres is probably the only thing that public
transport *can* cater for.

Without cars on the urban road network public transport would be
faster and more reliable.

Indeed it would. However, the current situation we have is that public
transport routes rarely cater for where you want to go. For example, to do
my route to work I would have to get a bus all the way into the city centre,
then another one out again at a different angle - taking well over an hour,
when my destination is just 7 miles away but in a direction not catered for
by the bus network.

We know that building more roads is
a) environmentally damaging

How so? Surely free flowing traffic is using fuel more efficiently, and thus
polluting less, than a traffic jam with thousands of cars hardly moving at
all?

b) increases usage so essentially provides no longterm greater net
capacity.

Usage does increase, however that usage tends to come off local residential
roads, thus making life far more pleasant for residents.
For example, you could argue that the M60 completion in Manchester filled up
to capacity almost on the day it opened, which may be true - but if you look
at the bigger picture and how much quieter local streets in the area are,
surely it's worth it.

So where do you stop, when the whole country is one great network
of asphalt???

Don't be silly, we're nowhere near that. I don't think the motorway network
even takes up 1% of the land in this country, there's plenty of space for
more.

Look at a map of Germany, and compare it to a map of this country. They have
motorways all over the place, yet they still have plenty of countryside to
enjoy.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

When labour came to power the country had no money. It was in a
huge deficit.It has taken time to gather the money for spending.

Au contrare, Labour has increased the national debt since it came to power.

Large road building schemes are NOT the answer. it has been proven
that traffic grows according to network capacity. So we build another
M25 result more traffic

Yes we should build an outer M25. One of the main reasons the M25 is so
congested is that it serves as a local London ring road, and also as a
London bypass.

If the North/South Circulars had been built properly as 3-4 lane motorways,
people living in London wouldn't need to use the M25 to get from one part to
another, and it would do what it was designed for - cater for long-distance
traffic.

Yuppies were synonimus with the 80's its a known FACT. FACT She sold
off all of the national utilities, which now make huge profits for private
shareholders instead of such funding going back into th coffers. All that
MT ever did was to lower taxes at the expense of everything else.

What has that got to do with anything? I'm not debating Thatcher's social
policies, this is a transport group and they're irrelevant. No matter how
bad things were with Ms Thatcher, you have to admit that she did actually
invest in the motorway network.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:36:52 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote:
No matter how
bad things were with Ms Thatcher,
Did you say BAD I never had it so good things certainly went down hill
once Major moved into No 10 .
Grant .

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Chris Jones" wrote the following
in:

If the North/South Circulars had been built properly as 3-4 lane
motorways, people living in London wouldn't need to use the M25 to
get from one part to another, and it would do what it was designed
for - cater for long-distance traffic.

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits where it
gets very congested or narrows down to single carriageway, it's
generally alright.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Paul Weaver" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:46:18 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:


It took 15 years of Hell before Junction 8 on the M62 was finished. The
Trafford Centre fares better, however the metro doesn't go there.

The Trafford Centre only received planning permission on the basis that the
Greater Manchester LRT System (Metrolink) would reach the Dumplington
complex *before* the centre opened, in order to reduce the traffic chaos.

Either they've broken the rules (perhaps this was changed after the public
inquiry) or they widened the M63/M60 instead?

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"iantheengineer" wrote in message
...

"Chris Jones" wrote in message
...
Just look at the roads around any Ikea store, for instance.

Absolute rubbish. all large developments require transport impact
assessments. The DEVELOPER pays for these to be carrioed out and the are
examined by the councils or the prevailinbg highway authority. all
junctioons and link roads are examined for capacity and the impact that
traffic will have. The examinations are robust with factors of safety
built
into them. If the junctions start to cause a proble or reach 85% of the
capacity within the (normally) 10 years following development. the
DEVELOPER
pays for the improvement works.

I should know I write TIAs on regular basis

Does this apply where the development and the access road lie within two
different authorities?

I quote the case of IKEA Leeds, which is actually in Kirklees
(Huddersfield), and the main access point of the M62/M621 comes under Leeds
City Council.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:31:32 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:
Don't be silly, we're nowhere near that. I don't think the motorway network
even takes up 1% of the land in this country, there's plenty of space for
more.

Motorways take about 50 square miles of the UK - 0.05% of the total land
area.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:48:45 +0000, Robin May wrote:

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits where it
gets very congested or narrows down to single carriageway, it's
generally alright.

Traffic lights

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Chris Jones" typed


Look at a map of Germany, and compare it to a map of this country. They have
motorways all over the place, yet they still have plenty of countryside to
enjoy.

They have *much* greater area of land and a similar population though.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

Paul Weaver typed


On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:31:32 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:
Don't be silly, we're nowhere near that. I don't think the motorway
network
even takes up 1% of the land in this country, there's plenty of space for
more.

Motorways take about 50 square miles of the UK - 0.05% of the total land
area.

Then there are the access flyovers, interchanges, service areas, areas
inaccessible due to presence of motorways, roads that are motorways in
all but name and the area taken up is hugely increased...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:26:39 -0000, "iantheengineer"
wrote:
Yuppies were synonimus with the 80's its a known FACT. FACT She sold off
all
of the national utilities,
Why did she sell them off because they where making a big loss the
only reason the private companies are now making a profits is because
they cut out all the loss making side of the businesses . Had any
government tried to do this it would have been "down tools we are out
on strike lads".
Had BA still been a nationalised company there would have been no BA
flights to anywhere out of Heathrow or any other UK airport due to
them cutting out the big loss making Concorde but because BA is now in
private hands employees are watching their steps .
All that MT
ever did was to lower taxes at the expense of everything else. If you
were
working all well and good but if you were not ( highest levels of
unemployment for years) then tough.
No you can place the blame at the feet of the trade unions for all the
unemployment not MT had MT not come down hard on the unions and their
leaders like that ******* Scargill there would have been double the
amount of unemployment. I would willingly go with out mail if the
Royal mail management where to sack all the useless striking employees
tonight .
Grant .

Okay heres an analogy fro you , you are a plumber, you need money, what do
you do

a) become more cost effective and deliver a service to increase business

b) Sell your toolkit so that you have a nice capital sum to keep the wife
happy this week, and then relaise that you have no source of income.

It seems to me that all of the privatised industries that were sold off were
making a loss at the time of sale, however they are now making a profit. Why
couldnt this have been done while they were nationalised???? While they wer
nationalised a dgeree of control on them could be exerted, now market forces
do similar but the government do not recieve the dividends, all those people
who were telling Sid are!

No instead MT boosted the coffers with the capital investment, gave everyone
tax breaks and gradually drove the country into the ground.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:36:52 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote:
No matter how
bad things were with Ms Thatcher,
Did you say BAD I never had it so good things certainly went down hill
once Major moved into No 10 .
Grant .

Exactly YOU never had it so good in the short term!

What about all the other people???? Do you forget the miners strikes when
good ol MT decided to close all of the pits so we imported cheap coal from
Africa. Now most of the pits have closed Africas coal price has risen
dramatically, oh yeah she was an absolute genius! Any 5 year old could have
seen that coming

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Chris Jones" wrote the following
in:

If the North/South Circulars had been built properly as 3-4 lane
motorways, people living in London wouldn't need to use the M25 to
get from one part to another, and it would do what it was designed
for - cater for long-distance traffic.

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits where it
gets very congested or narrows down to single carriageway, it's
generally alright.

Investment in public transport is whats required, something else MT ran into
the ground

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Paul Weaver" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 22:48:45 +0000, Robin May wrote:

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits where it
gets very congested or narrows down to single carriageway, it's
generally alright.

Traffic lights


?????

Traffic lights??????? Are you inferring thjat they are the cause of the
delay. If this is the case then yes I would agree traffic signals will
always cause delay, but they are better than priority and less expensive
than roundabouts to install. How much delay depends upon the designer and
the type of control, whether it is fixed or adaptive. All modern schemes are
adaptive, MOVA, micro proceesor optimized vehicle actuation is now the
standard method of control for isolated junctions

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
iantheengineer wrote:

When labour came to power the country had no money.

********.


No not ******** FACT

--
Having problems understanding usenet? Or do you simply need help but
are getting unhelpful answers? Subscribe to: uk.net.beginners for
friendly advice in a flame-free environment.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Chris Jones" wrote in message
...
Not crap the truth

Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact
that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25,
as
well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you?

Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll
road) somehow paints them as a shining knight?





Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with huge
congestion.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:57:59 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote:
Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact
that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25,
as
well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you?
Chris there are some people in this country who will never see one
ounce of good in Mrs Thatcher or in anything she did but to me she was
the best PM since Sir Winston. At least she had the guts to stand up
for the UK and its people when she went across to Brussels and with
her education being so advanced she did know how to say the word NO in
many different tongs if need be unlike Blair and his pack of bloody
war mungers and liars .
With a bit of luck in eighteen months time the UK will be governed by
a decent party with a man at the helm who knows what he is doing .
Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll
road) somehow paints them as a shining knight?
What rubbish Chris what about all the new roads houses and god knows
what else the current government is providing and building in Iraqi
with OUR money for the people of Iraqi not to mention all the four
star accommodation that they are building for all the foreign guest's
that Blair and the blind beggar are welcoming into this country with
open arms .
My God if only we COULD have dear Maggie back in No10 .
Grant .


Oh my god she converted somone, live in the South par chance?????

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:57:59 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote:
Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact
that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25,
as
well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you?
Chris there are some people in this country who will never see one
ounce of good in Mrs Thatcher or in anything she did but to me she was
the best PM since Sir Winston. At least she had the guts to stand up
for the UK and its people when she went across to Brussels and with
her education being so advanced she did know how to say the word NO in
many different tongs if need be unlike Blair and his pack of bloody
war mungers and liars .
With a bit of luck in eighteen months time the UK will be governed by
a decent party with a man at the helm who knows what he is doing .
Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll
road) somehow paints them as a shining knight?
What rubbish Chris what about all the new roads houses and god knows
what else the current government is providing and building in Iraqi
with OUR money for the people of Iraqi not to mention all the four
star accommodation that they are building for all the foreign guest's
that Blair and the blind beggar are welcoming into this country with
open arms .
My God if only we COULD have dear Maggie back in No10 .
Grant .


I enjoyed the irony of your email address. The people??? You are so removed
from the people you are in a seperate galaxy.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on
improvement
but
it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when
giving
the
yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.


Not crap the truth



Your erros have already been pointed out by others. I suggest you do not
let your pointless hatred for a long departed Prime Minister blind you
to the truth.

--
"The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

I suggest you look to Grant for bigotry

I like the attitude of the blues in this room, they have short memories
"lets sack the royal mail staff"

Okay then where would you be today without people standing up for what they
believe. In years gone by we were at the beg and call of our employers, had
no safety legislation, working hours restrictions etc to protect us, they
could hire, abuse and fire any one they wanted when they wanted. People died
needlessly.

Out of this sprang the unions who fought for rights that the blues now take
for granted. Without struggle pain and suffereing on the shoulders of others
they would not have their nice cushly lifestyles now. However they seem to
believe that this would have happened anyway, from what catalyst???

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"PeterE" wrote in message
...
iantheengineer wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message
...
"iantheengineer" writes:

[37 lines snipped]

As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on
improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she
created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!"

Don't talk bigotted crap.

Not crap the truth

Sorry, one of the biggest loads of totally untrue rubbish posted here for
months.

Margaret Thatcher was by far the most pro-road Prime Minister of recent
years and her administration approved a large number of new road projects
(completing the M40 between Oxford and Birmingham probably being the
single
biggest). Unfortunately many of those were cancelled by the Major
government
and some of those that remained by John Prescott.

Labour has recently begun to grudgingly acknowledge that a decent
transport
system is essential for a successful economy, and has started reinstating
a
few of these schemes.

But without the decisions taken under the Thatcher adminstrations,
Britain's
roads would be far worse than they are now (which doesn't bear thinking
about, really).

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Your view is certainly not shared by me, yes she may have buiilt roads, but
look at what happens road building leads to more traffic, this has been
researched.

Which political party was John Major from????


Thanks for corraborating, why did Major cancel the schemes????



Oh yes no money


Why was there no money

Oh yes Thatcher

And oh yes the schemes remain with Prescott

Ah they remain, ie on a list, ie to be looked into


In the meantime most local highway sections have never been so busy, the
only problem is getting trained staff( most local HAs have a backlog of
work). A problem once more proliferated in the 80s with the scrapping of
apprenticeships and the introduction of the YTS.


Im bored now arguing with the rosy tinted spectacle weares of the 70s and
80s

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"iantheengineer" wrote the following
in:


"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Chris Jones" wrote the following
in:

If the North/South Circulars had been built properly as 3-4
lane motorways, people living in London wouldn't need to use
the M25 to get from one part to another, and it would do what
it was designed for - cater for long-distance traffic.

The North Circular's not that bad. Apart from a few dodgy bits
where it gets very congested or narrows down to single
carriageway, it's generally alright.

Investment in public transport is whats required, something else
MT ran into the ground

Well, yes, but I don't see what that has to do with my post. Could you
explain?

--
message by Robin May

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:02:50 -0000, "JNugent"
wrote:

wrote:


Hasn't the A74 been in the process of being upgraded to motorway for the
last seven or eight years?


Yes it has I'll grant you that. It will be allright if it gets
finished if they get rid of the 2 lane bits.

And I'm sure there was some extension of the M8 or M9 being built in the
mid-1990s (the last time I was in the Edinburgfh area).


Just tied up the M8, M9, City Bypass, Gyle shopping centre junction.
There is *still* not a proper approach to the Forth bridge from the
M8/M9 just a single carriageway back alley

And what about the Edinburgh Ring?


Should have been a motorway, with links into Edinburgh

And the M77?


A dead end bit of a spur off to nowhere.

And the M90?


Primitive, Built IIRC before 1970, I used it in 1974, (not the
bridge/junction over the river Earn) without hard shoulders! Why the
Scots ever stood for that I can't imagiine. Reminds me of Freddy
Trueman's story about the "Poverty Pit".

These were all built in the 70s, 80, and 90s.

Not enough, true - but "all built by 1970 all but 15 miles" cannot be
accurate.


From: http://www.ukmotorwayarchive.org/ (talking about Scotland)

By the end of 1967, 151.5 miles of motorway and dual carriageway were
open, 42.5 miles were under construction, and 15 miles had to be
started to achieve the target 209 miles total.

DG

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:13:50 -0000, "PeterE"
wrote:

derek wrote:

All what roadbuilding? The motorways in Scotland were complete (all
but 15 miles) before 1970. That's to all intents and puposes 35 years
ago. As I said it's like driving round the old East Germany. And now
like any old system maintenance is a big source of downtime. Let's
face it every other system that's tried to run using 35 year old
infrastructure has bitten the dust (The Mills, The Mines, The
Steelworks, USW, USW.)


The extension of the M74/A74(M) south to Gretna largely took place in the
1990s. Likewise the building of the M77. And the upgrading of the A90
between Perth and Aberdeen.

Did that run this week. it should have been a motorway, a proper one
from square one.


You were saying?

http://www.ukmotorwayarchive.org/

By the end of 1967, 151.5 miles of motorway and dual carriageway were
open, 42.5 miles were under construction, and 15 miles had to be
started to achieve the target 209 miles total.

DG

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

Your view is certainly not shared by me, yes she may have buiilt roads,
but look at what happens road building leads to more traffic, this
has been researched.

Perhaps building roads does lead to more traffic - for example, before the
M25 was built, I would be far less likely to travel from Birmingham to Kent,
simply because of the hassle of getting through London.

Surely new roads giving people new possibilities to travel, meet friends and
relatives, and go for days out should be celebrated? After all, that means
our standard of living has increased, surely.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked as we
are.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Chris Jones" typed


Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked as we
are.


France has about four times the land area, for the same population as th UK.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"iantheengineer" writes:

How much delay depends upon the designer and the type of control,
whether it is fixed or adaptive. All modern schemes are adaptive,
MOVA, micro proceesor optimized vehicle actuation is now the
standard method of control for isolated junctions

When the traffic lights at Chiswick Roundabout were upgraded last
year, tailbacks on the Eastbound A4 quadrupled. The "optimized"
controller was routinely letting the southbound North Circular traffic
onto the roundabout at the same time as the eastbound A4, with the
result that only 3 or 4 cars from each lane could get off the A4 on
each cycle. I am not convinced that MOVA lights are an improvement on
the fixed cycle synchronized lights that started becoming popular 20
years ago.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
"Chris Jones" typed


Building roads does not solve the problem, it helps locally but
creates
problems elsewhere. Thats why we are where we arte today with
huge congestion.

Then how do you explain the fact that France for example has very
little
congestion, and has built something like 4 times the amount of motorway
that
we have? Surely if what you say is true, all of their new motorways
would
have filled up with traffic instantly and they'd be just as gridlocked
as we
are.

France has about four times the land area, for the same population as th
UK.

More like twice the land area*, but I agree that's one reason. There are
fewer cars per mile of road. Also since distances are longer, people may
be more reluctant to travel by car, especially since
- the French autoroutes (motorways) are toll roads except near large
cities, e.g. Calais to Paris costs about £12,
- long-distance radial routes from Paris have excellent fast TGV train
services.

* from http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/1996/in1.pdf:
Land area: France 547,030 sq km, UK 244,820, ratio 2.23
% of surface passenger-km by road (incl. bus): France 92.7%, UK 95.4%
% of surface freight ton-km by road: France 63.1%, UK 88.5%

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:26:39 -0000, "iantheengineer"
wrote:



Okay lets see, so you need to buy something what do you do.

1. Pay for it with money

2. Borrow the money

When labour came to power the country had no money. It was in a huge
deficit.It has taken time to gather the money for spending.


They never said that they stopped road building because they were
short of money. Prescott just cancelled all the schemes wholesale. In
Doncaster they had widened one of the approach roads to the city right
up to the river Don and Prescott cancelled the bloody bridge 1 day
before the contract was due to be signed so the new road was useless.

They cancelled the road improvements to make the trains seem more
attractive out of political dogma. It was the series of train crashes
and the Railtrack meltdown that forced them to do an about turn.

Since labour came to power councils bid for work using local transport
plans.

And?


Large road building schemes are NOT the answer. it has been proven that
traffic grows according to network capacity. So we build another M25 result
more traffic


That can only occurr if there is a reservoir of unsatified demand, it
is a sign we need more capacity, maybe another road somewhere else.

So we upgrade the A9 from Perth to Inverness to motorway standard.
Please explain where all the extra congestion will come from and why.


Local transport plans are developed by local authorities to best solve the
problems they have / prepare for the future.

Each plan is judged with others and funding allocatr=ted by central
government.

As for the inital state of the roads ask any local government highway
engineer for the truth ( i was one) and they will tell you.

Yuppies were synonimus with the 80's its a known FACT.

Wrong Yuppies were a '90s phenomena, as several people have told you.

FACT She sold off all
of the national utilities, which now make huge profits for private
shareholders

LOL Yorkshire Water offerred itself back into public ownership for
free, and (whoever) refused it!

instead of such funding going back into th coffers. All that MT
ever did was to lower taxes at the expense of everything else. If you were
working all well and good but if you were not ( highest levels of
unemployment for years) then tough.


It was coming anyway that's *why* MT got in. Remember the "Winter of
discontent"? Who's got the rose tinted seebakrascopes on now?

DG

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

iantheengineer wrote:

It seems to me that all of the privatised industries that were sold
off were making a loss at the time of sale, however they are now
making a profit. Why couldnt this have been done while they were
nationalised???? While they wer nationalised a dgeree of control on
them could be exerted, now market forces do similar but the
government do not recieve the dividends, all those people who were
telling Sid are!

Er, public ownership removes much of the incentive for efficiency and
profit.

The fate of the Soviet Union is clear proof.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

iantheengineer wrote:
"Steve Firth" wrote in message
.. .
iantheengineer wrote:

When labour came to power the country had no money.

********.

No not ******** FACT

No, ********.

In 1997 Gordon Brown inherited the healthiest financial situation of any
post-war Chancellor.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:59:51 +0000, iantheengineer wrote:
What about all the other people???? Do you forget the miners strikes
when

I don't much care. You see in the private industry if your company doesnt
sell Cheaply, it goes bust, shareholders lose big time, normal workers
move to other industries, they adapt, or should.

good ol MT decided to close all of the pits so we imported cheap coal
from Africa. Now most of the pits have closed Africas coal price has
risen dramatically, oh yeah she was an absolute genius! Any 5 year old
could have seen that coming

Of course instead of depleteing our coal reserves we still have them, so
in 50 years When there's hardly any left, we can reopen the pits and make
big bucks.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:56:35 +0000, iantheengineer wrote:
Why couldnt this have been done while they were nationalised????

Because the way to make them efficient and profitable was political
suicide (modernisation and redundancies)

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

iantheengineer wrote:
"PeterE" wrote in message

But without the decisions taken under the Thatcher adminstrations,
Britain's roads would be far worse than they are now (which doesn't
bear thinking about, really).

Your view is certainly not shared by me, yes she may have buiilt
roads, but look at what happens road building leads to more traffic,
this has been researched.

Those Romans have a lot to answer for.

Increasing capacity increases demand - so what?

Which political party was John Major from????

I am not some kneejerk defender of the Conservative Party. The Major
government was disastrous for transport in the UK - remember they were also
responsible for the botched privatisation of the railways.

Thanks for corraborating, why did Major cancel the schemes????

Oh yes no money

It was a short-term saving which is now proving to have serious long-term
effects.

In the meantime most local highway sections have never been so busy,
the only problem is getting trained staff( most local HAs have a
backlog of work). A problem once more proliferated in the 80s with
the scrapping of apprenticeships and the introduction of the YTS.

If they didn't waste so much money building humps they would find it easier
to keep the roads in good repair.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect."

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:40:46 +0000, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
Then there are the access flyovers, interchanges, service areas, areas
inaccessible due to presence of motorways, roads that are motorways in
all but name and the area taken up is hugely increased...

In terms of motorway per area Germany has over twice as much. The
Netherlands over 4 times as much.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:22:10 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:
Surely new roads giving people new possibilities to travel, meet friends and
relatives, and go for days out should be celebrated? After all, that means
our standard of living has increased, surely.

No the Anti car brigade think that we should live work and shop within
walking distance, and should never travel more then 10 miles except on a
holiday (via train) to Brighton. Bit like the 19th century. Traveling over
land from the Mediterranean to the Channel in 12 hours is evil.

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:09:26 +0000, iantheengineer wrote:
Oh my god she converted somone, live in the South par chance?????

My family were always big Maggie fans. When she Started we lived in Brum,
then moved up to Manchester. Throws your stereotype out a little don't it?

Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
 

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:32:48 +0000, iantheengineer wrote:
Out of this sprang the unions who fought for rights that the blues now take
for granted. Without struggle pain and suffereing on the shoulders of others
they would not have their nice cushly lifestyles now. However they seem to
believe that this would have happened anyway, from what catalyst???

You dont get it do you. Don't like your job or conditions? Hand in your
notice and LEVAE. If everyone did that (of their own free will) then
companies have to change. If they don't then they have no employees to run
the business, and the recently departed can start their own business.

Unions force the majority to bow to the whims of the minority by
intimidation - something that should be illegal.