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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
... Is 175.00 such an outrageous price to pay for a train journey to London from Manchester ? when you think of all the people on very high wages (thanks to the unions) who are involved for someone to be able to make that journey train staff booking clerks platform staff signal men not to mention all the expense of maintaining the permanent way these things don't come cheap . Perhaps not, but 80 pounds per passenger-hour should be enough to provide personal service all the way. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:11:53 +0100, "Nick Finnigan"
wrote: Perhaps not, but 80 pounds per passenger-hour should be enough to provide personal service all the way. Maybe not rail travel always was expensive due to perks given to rail staff amugst other things . Back in the days of British Rail did you know that a railway man and his whole family where given free optical tests and free spectacles curtesy of British rail, I don't know if this perk is still in existance now or not but I do know that it is true two members of my family worked for BR one a driver the other a guard . Grant . |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Crozier" wrote in message ... On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:11:53 +0100, "Nick Finnigan" wrote: Perhaps not, but 80 pounds per passenger-hour should be enough to provide personal service all the way. Maybe not rail travel always was expensive due to perks given to rail staff amugst other things . Back in the days of British Rail did you know that a railway man and his whole family where given free optical tests and free spectacles curtesy of British rail, I don't know if this perk is still in existance now or not but I do know that it is true two members of my family worked for BR one a driver the other a guard . That's outrageous that a train driver should have eye test! ;) Also if you are in any job that requires you to spend more than a certain amount of time using a VDU your employer is required to provide free eye tests. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Crozier" wrote in message ... On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:51:47 +0100, "JNugent" wrote: driving - but don't let's get hung up on it - it *was* only a suggestion to show how ridiculous a rail fare of £175 for such a journey really is. I wouldn't suggest a taxi for that sort of journey (at least, not for just one passenger, except ias a distress purchase). Is 175.00 such an outrageous price to pay for a train journey to London from Manchester ? Considering the SRA's report describing conditions on many trains as intolerable £175 sounds rather like an insult. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Paul Weaver wrote: On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:08:45 +0100, JohnB wrote: Ride a bike, walk, take a bus or a train and you are immediately branded as the arch demon out to purge the world of peoples freedoms. I certainly don't think that. Preach that others should follow your lifestyle though and you are the arch demon. Goes both ways too. Unfortunately trying to encourage others to consider at other modes of transport is often denigrated by those whose eyes are firmly closed as 'preaching'. Presently the final choice rests with the individual but when their actions become considered unnacceptable by a significant number of people (not necessarily a majority) then some control action is necessary. It may be by local authority or other agency. Parking that restricts road use by others is one example. have. I live in a semi-rural area with relatively poor bus and train services - hourly at most to the nearest town of any size, and a handful in the evenings and Sundays. How do you do your weekly shopping then? 4 people in a house can total 20 bags - wouldnt like to carry them 5 miles home. Wouldn't like to carry them on the bus either! Well, Tuesday I cycled into the nearest town with a trailer and brought back about 30kg of goods. We also use the local shops for fresh produce - we have a good local butcher and greengrocer, and we make a lot of use of internet shopping, using two main suppliers who have proved to be very reliable. I also ride up to an organic farm about two miles north of here that has a farm shop and another farm supplies eggs etc. I can get the latter within walking distance but its a pleasant trip;-) That must be an extreme situation. Where is it? And how many people live Of course it's an extreme situation, just wanted to see if you would agree that sometimes a car is neccersary. Of course I do. Much to the disdain of several petrolheads on this ng who brand anyone who rides a cycle or walks as anti-freedom. Heres some anecdotal evidence: Isnip examples of travel Yes there are some inconveniences with choosing not to run a car, but IME they are far far outweighed by the improved quality of life, with the quite pleasant side benefit of much lower financial outlay. John B |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JNugent" wrote in message
... wrote: But none of this is novel - it has been argued over many times here. You could even take a taxi... It would be a horrendous journey. About the same as the car, but less stressful because you wouldn't be driving A 10 year old Nissan Bluebird with plastic seat covers or a Metrocab flat out at 50mph less stressful than driving a modern, fast, comfortable car - no chance!! |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Stimpy" wrote in message ... "JNugent" wrote in message ... wrote: But none of this is novel - it has been argued over many times here. You could even take a taxi... It would be a horrendous journey. About the same as the car, but less stressful because you wouldn't be driving A 10 year old Nissan Bluebird with plastic seat covers or a Metrocab flat out at 50mph less stressful than driving a modern, fast, comfortable car - no chance!! I did 200 miles in a 30 year old 4 speed not that long ago, less stressful than 5 in a modern Merc driven my a taxi driver. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
In Grant Crozier wrote: Is 175.00 such an outrageous price to pay for a train journey to London from Manchester ? Yep. You can go to Brussels, at mostly 180mph, in a comfortable seat, for £75 -- and that would be a return fare. You can fly for cheaper still. -- kedron |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Stimpy wrote...
"JNugent" wrote: wrote: But none of this is novel - it has been argued over many times here. You could even take a taxi... It would be a horrendous journey. About the same as the car, but less stressful because you wouldn't be driving A 10 year old Nissan Bluebird with plastic seat covers or a Metrocab flat out at 50mph less stressful than driving a modern, fast, comfortable car - no chance!! This is a matter of opinion. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
How do you do your weekly shopping then? 4 people in a house can total
20 bags - wouldnt like to carry them 5 miles home. Wouldn't like to carry them on the bus either! Well, Tuesday I cycled into the nearest town with a trailer and brought back about 30kg of goods. We also use the local shops for fresh produce - we have a good local butcher and greengrocer, and we make a lot of use of internet shopping, using two main suppliers who have proved to be very reliable. I also ride up to an organic farm about two miles north of here that has a farm shop and another farm supplies eggs etc. I can get the latter within walking distance but its a pleasant trip;-) Fair enough. Internet shopping is becoming a much better way to shop anyway these days, and I'm sure the cycle ride with the trailer does you good. A helluva lot more good than lardy-arsed me in my car! Actually, the other day in London, on Leadenhall Street, I saw a pedal-operated vehicle whereby the operator laid back a bit (making the pedalling easier), and had plenty of storage in the back. It had DHL plastered all over it. What an excellent idea, I thought. Around town that is most definitely quicker than any car. If I could get from Slough (where the courier company I work for is based) into the centre of London in around an hour and a half I definitely wouldn't bother using a car/van for work, but I suspect it would take much nearer 2-2.5 hours. And most of the time I can easily get in or out in an hour (thanks to the very handy route through Lambeth/Blackfriars instead of using the horribly congested Victoria Embankment). Peter |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:57:44 +0000 (UTC), "kedron"
wrote: Yep. You can go to Brussels, at mostly 180mph, in a comfortable seat, for £75 -- and that would be a return fare. You can. You can also go from Manchester to London and back for little more than 20 quid. Both fares have in common that they are quota-controlled and heavily restricted. The full-fare, non-quota-controlled[1] standard return on E* is, IIRC, well over 200 quid. [1] Almost... because E* don't allow standing passengers, you have a greater chance of being refused travel on a given train than on a "normal" rail service where you can crush-load. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
In Neil Williams wrote: Yep. You can go to Brussels, at mostly 180mph, in a comfortable seat, for £75 -- and that would be a return fare. You can. You can also go from Manchester to London and back for little more than 20 quid. Both fares have in common that they are quota-controlled and heavily restricted. I use the Eurostar all the time, those fares are not heavily restricted, if you book just a little in advance. The full-fare, non-quota-controlled[1] standard return on E* is, IIRC, well over 200 quid. Yeah, and all that makes £175 to Manchester a really good deal -- my ass. If I ever run a railway line up the garden path, you can be my first customer. -- kedron |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
JohnB wrote:
snip Well, Tuesday I cycled into the nearest town with a trailer and brought back about 30kg of goods. Anyone who is allready a bit 'Bikey', I can't recommend these trailers enough. You can buy one for about 30 odd quid and it transforms the cycle from a means of personal transport to a load carrying vehicle. I use mine about once a month and I reckon its paid for itself in Taxi fares twice over. Just my tuppence worth. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:23:55 +0000 (UTC), "kedron"
wrote: Yeah, and all that makes £175 to Manchester a really good deal -- my ass. Where did I say that? What I did say only goes to prove they're not the only ones at it. Neil -- Neil Williams is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:23:55 +0000 (UTC), "kedron"
wrote: In Neil Williams wrote: Yep. You can go to Brussels, at mostly 180mph, in a comfortable seat, for £75 -- and that would be a return fare. You can. You can also go from Manchester to London and back for little more than 20 quid. Both fares have in common that they are quota-controlled and heavily restricted. I use the Eurostar all the time, those fares are not heavily restricted, if you book just a little in advance. They're not turn up and go fares, are they, though? Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
In Robert Woolley wrote: You can. You can also go from Manchester to London and back for little more than 20 quid. Both fares have in common that they are quota-controlled and heavily restricted. I use the Eurostar all the time, those fares are not heavily restricted, if you book just a little in advance. They're not turn up and go fares, are they, though? Correct. The basic point is that the fare is cheap. If people were offered a 180mph train with a guaranteed seat to Manchester, booking (just a little) in advance would be no problem. UK public transport fares are already high relative to salaries, at least compared to other countries, and especially compared to the level of service provided. -- kedron |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Jeff Lewis UK" wrote in message om... How about spending some of the money that is currently being extorted from car drivers on something completely radical like building new underground roads similar to the ones in Bruges Belgium. We are constantly being stuffed for more any more cash to subsidize harebrained council schemes none of which improve our lives at all. Surely if engineers 120 years ago can build the London underground railway system, we in the 21st century can build an underground road system. For those that have not visited Bruges, let me describe a car journey to that city. We arrived on the Sea Cat (The Vomit Comet) at Ostend and drive 13 miles to Bruges where you are directed down a tunnel some miles out of the city. After driving some distance underground, you are directed into giant car parks and take the lift back to daylight, where you arrive in the middle of a huge town square with Bars and restaurants around the edge, and the latest shops within a short walk. No Stress at all. Compare this with a trip to London where parking meters earn more that a worker's minimum hourly wage and everything is designed to give the maximum stress and the minimum value. We need some new thinking on this. Public transport is not the answer, and not everyone can cycle to work. Jeff Its a case of would it be justified and the answer is no, you cannot have underground systems everywhere, they are only econmic in cities. As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of
underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" Ey? The 1980's saw the building of most of the M25, as well as several other major schemes. Since Labour came to power, what have we got? Nothing for 5 years, and now paltry 1-lane widening schemes to bits of road here and there. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:39:46 -0000, "iantheengineer"
wrote: Its a case of would it be justified and the answer is no, you cannot have underground systems everywhere, they are only econmic in cities. As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher ?? She was out before the 1st Gulf War, 1990-1991, (13 years ago). for the years of underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement But they spent nowt for Yonks didn't they until it became obvious that the useless gang of ******* who were running that apology for a railway we had couldn't run a popcorn stand. but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" I can't let that go by. You appear to be confused, M.T. was the author of the privatisation era, BT, BA, BG ... etc. Yuppiedom started with the deregulation of the City of London, mid '90s onwards, when a one bedroom flat in the docklands at £350k came with a "free" Porsche (But no garage!). Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! Driving around Scotland this last week reminded me of driving around the old East Germany. There isn't even uninterupted motorway between Glasgow,Edinburgh and London (Pick any 2), and the motorway doesn't go anywhere near Edinburgh city centre, and there isn't even an uninterupted motorway route to England. My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. The old A1 has been moved 3 times around Newcastle-upon-Tyne and the journey still takes longer than when the traffic went over Tyne Bridge and straight through the middle of the city! It is so bad around the Metro centre that there is a permanent free breakdown service! It's obvious what's needed, a proper 3 (at least) lane motorway bypassing N'castle unencumbered with local traffic and *motorway* onwards to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. DG |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:33:06 +0000, derek
wrote: Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! [snip] My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up? Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve congestion? Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Robert Woolley wrote...
derek wrote: Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up? Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve congestion? There are at least two other equally-valid possibilities: (a) his journeys are longer, more numerous and/or are undertaken in a busier part of the UK, or (b) due to increases in traffic (especially during the prosperous 1980s), the congestion would have been even worse had it not been for the (relatively small) expansion of the high-quality road network (meaning that not enough expansion has taken place). |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"JNugent" writes:
(b) due to increases in traffic (especially during the prosperous 1980s), the congestion would have been even worse had it not been for the (relatively small) expansion of the high-quality road network (meaning that not enough expansion has taken place). Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking distance. The only practical way to get between these places is to drive. If the road network had not been expanded to accomodate such "urban planning", a more sensible mix would have been found that did not involve everyone driving everywhere. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence
more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking distance. That's not new roads causing extra traffic, that's out-of-town shopping centres and retail parks causing extra traffic. Unfortunately, councils are all too keen to grant permission for these things, but they don't bother improving the road network in the area to cope with the inevitable increase in congestion. Just look at the roads around any Ikea store, for instance. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 12:46:18 +0000, Chris Jones wrote:
Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking distance. That's not new roads causing extra traffic, that's out-of-town shopping centres and retail parks causing extra traffic. Unfortunately, councils are all too keen to grant permission for these things, but they don't bother improving the road network in the area to cope with the inevitable increase in congestion. Just look at the roads around any Ikea store, for instance. It took 15 years of Hell before Junction 8 on the M62 was finished. The Trafford Centre fares better, however the metro doesn't go there. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Huge" wrote in message ... "iantheengineer" writes: [37 lines snipped] As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" Don't talk bigotted crap. -- "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse." The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk] Not crap the truth |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Not crap the truth
Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25, as well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you? Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll road) somehow paints them as a shining knight? |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:57:59 -0000, "Chris Jones"
wrote: Would you like to back that up with evidence? For example, does the fact that Thatcher's government built large portions of the M40, M20 and M25, as well as several other major road projects, mean nothing to you? Chris there are some people in this country who will never see one ounce of good in Mrs Thatcher or in anything she did but to me she was the best PM since Sir Winston. At least she had the guts to stand up for the UK and its people when she went across to Brussels and with her education being so advanced she did know how to say the word NO in many different tongs if need be unlike Blair and his pack of bloody war mungers and liars . With a bit of luck in eighteen months time the UK will be governed by a decent party with a man at the helm who knows what he is doing . Whereas the current government's refusal to build anything (except a toll road) somehow paints them as a shining knight? What rubbish Chris what about all the new roads houses and god knows what else the current government is providing and building in Iraqi with OUR money for the people of Iraqi not to mention all the four star accommodation that they are building for all the foreign guest's that Blair and the blind beggar are welcoming into this country with open arms . My God if only we COULD have dear Maggie back in No10 . Grant . |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
iantheengineer wrote:
"Huge" wrote in message ... "iantheengineer" writes: [37 lines snipped] As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher for the years of underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" Don't talk bigotted crap. Not crap the truth Sorry, one of the biggest loads of totally untrue rubbish posted here for months. Margaret Thatcher was by far the most pro-road Prime Minister of recent years and her administration approved a large number of new road projects (completing the M40 between Oxford and Birmingham probably being the single biggest). Unfortunately many of those were cancelled by the Major government and some of those that remained by John Prescott. Labour has recently begun to grudgingly acknowledge that a decent transport system is essential for a successful economy, and has started reinstating a few of these schemes. But without the decisions taken under the Thatcher adminstrations, Britain's roads would be far worse than they are now (which doesn't bear thinking about, really). -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect." |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
Steve Firth wrote:
Hindhead OTOH is something to be ashamed of. The road needs widening and this could be done quite easily along the current route but would give some "interesting" curves for a dual carriageway. Or they could bite the bullet and build the tunnel. In the time that it has taken the government to come to no decision over the route and hence to blight every property adjoining that section of the A3, I've seen the Italians develop three complete motorways through much more difficult terrain with tunnels of similar length every 10-20 km. I reckon before Hindhead is solved, the Italians will have built the third and fourth Gran' Sasso tunnels each about 11km in length. They are going to build the Hindhead tunnel (see the Highways Agency website) but by the time it is finished many of us will have retired. -- http://www.speedlimit.org.uk "If laws are to be respected, they must be worthy of respect." |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 11:22:19 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:33:06 +0000, derek wrote: Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! [snip] My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up? All what roadbuilding? The motorways in Scotland were complete (all but 15 miles) before 1970. That's to all intents and puposes 35 years ago. As I said it's like driving round the old East Germany. And now like any old system maintenance is a big source of downtime. Let's face it every other system that's tried to run using 35 year old infrastructure has bitten the dust (The Mills, The Mines, The Steelworks, USW, USW.) Standards have improved in 35 years so, nowadays any road works even on the verges and 1 lane is closed down leaving only one in operation, and then the queing starts big time. The main road north through Newcastle goes directly past the biggest retail shopping centre in Europe, the exit empties right on to it. So Aunt Agatha who lives in Ponteland a few miles away gets tangled up in with the Beer Lorries going to Edinburgh every time she goes to buy an M&S pizza. Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve congestion? Have you thought of offering that argument (Housebuilding is pointless) to the homeless? Or greater food production is futile, (the hungry will just eat it) to the starving. Why do you imagine ethernet networks have increased in capacity 100 fold? It's not been tried and found wanting, it's been wanted and found trying. DG |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"derek" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 19:39:46 -0000, "iantheengineer" wrote: Its a case of would it be justified and the answer is no, you cannot have underground systems everywhere, they are only econmic in cities. As for the crap roads well thank Mrs Thatcher ?? She was out before the 1st Gulf War, 1990-1991, (13 years ago). for the years of underinvestment. The current government is spending loads on improvement But they spent nowt for Yonks didn't they until it became obvious that the useless gang of ******* who were running that apology for a railway we had couldn't run a popcorn stand. but it will take toime to sort out all the problems she created when giving the yuppies tax breaks in the "good ol 1980s!" I can't let that go by. You appear to be confused, M.T. was the author of the privatisation era, BT, BA, BG ... etc. Yuppiedom started with the deregulation of the City of London, mid '90s onwards, when a one bedroom flat in the docklands at £350k came with a "free" Porsche (But no garage!). Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! Driving around Scotland this last week reminded me of driving around the old East Germany. There isn't even uninterupted motorway between Glasgow,Edinburgh and London (Pick any 2), and the motorway doesn't go anywhere near Edinburgh city centre, and there isn't even an uninterupted motorway route to England. My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. The old A1 has been moved 3 times around Newcastle-upon-Tyne and the journey still takes longer than when the traffic went over Tyne Bridge and straight through the middle of the city! It is so bad around the Metro centre that there is a permanent free breakdown service! It's obvious what's needed, a proper 3 (at least) lane motorway bypassing N'castle unencumbered with local traffic and *motorway* onwards to both Edinburgh and Glasgow. DG Okay lets see, so you need to buy something what do you do. 1. Pay for it with money 2. Borrow the money When labour came to power the country had no money. It was in a huge deficit.It has taken time to gather the money for spending. Since labour came to power councils bid for work using local transport plans. Large road building schemes are NOT the answer. it has been proven that traffic grows according to network capacity. So we build another M25 result more traffic Local transport plans are developed by local authorities to best solve the problems they have / prepare for the future. Each plan is judged with others and funding allocatr=ted by central government. As for the inital state of the roads ask any local government highway engineer for the truth ( i was one) and they will tell you. Yuppies were synonimus with the 80's its a known FACT. FACT She sold off all of the national utilities, which now make huge profits for private shareholders instead of such funding going back into th coffers. All that MT ever did was to lower taxes at the expense of everything else. If you were working all well and good but if you were not ( highest levels of unemployment for years) then tough. |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Grant Crozier" wrote in message
... not to mention all the four star accommodation that they are building for all the foreign guest's that Blair and the blind beggar are welcoming into this country with open arms . I thought you wanted cheap labour from abroad? I quote: "Royal mail should sack every one of the strikers NOW THIS MINUTE and replace them with imported staff from Pakistan and India ." clive |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Robert Woolley" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:33:06 +0000, derek wrote: Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! [snip] My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up? Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve congestion? Rob. -- rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk Well said Rob |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote in message ... "JNugent" writes: (b) due to increases in traffic (especially during the prosperous 1980s), the congestion would have been even worse had it not been for the (relatively small) expansion of the high-quality road network (meaning that not enough expansion has taken place). Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking distance. The only practical way to get between these places is to drive. If the road network had not been expanded to accomodate such "urban planning", a more sensible mix would have been found that did not involve everyone driving everywhere. Quite right Jason and this is what transport planners are trying to achieve now, although we are further doen te line than we would have liked. we need to concentrate developments and provide mixes of development types so that the need to travel is reduced |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"Chris Jones" wrote in message ... Have you ever considered that building new roads might influence more people to get into their cars? Many towns are now made up of large segregated areas of industrial "parks", shopping "parks" and vast residential suburbs without even a corner store within walking distance. That's not new roads causing extra traffic, that's out-of-town shopping centres and retail parks causing extra traffic. Unfortunately, councils are all too keen to grant permission for these things, but they don't bother improving the road network in the area to cope with the inevitable increase in congestion. Just look at the roads around any Ikea store, for instance. Absolute rubbish. all large developments require transport impact assessments. The DEVELOPER pays for these to be carrioed out and the are examined by the councils or the prevailinbg highway authority. all junctioons and link roads are examined for capacity and the impact that traffic will have. The examinations are robust with factors of safety built into them. If the junctions start to cause a proble or reach 85% of the capacity within the (normally) 10 years following development. the DEVELOPER pays for the improvement works. I should know I write TIAs on regular basis |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:26:39 -0000, "iantheengineer"
wrote: Yuppies were synonimus with the 80's its a known FACT. FACT She sold off all of the national utilities, Why did she sell them off because they where making a big loss the only reason the private companies are now making a profits is because they cut out all the loss making side of the businesses . Had any government tried to do this it would have been "down tools we are out on strike lads". Had BA still been a nationalised company there would have been no BA flights to anywhere out of Heathrow or any other UK airport due to them cutting out the big loss making Concorde but because BA is now in private hands employees are watching their steps . All that MT ever did was to lower taxes at the expense of everything else. If you were working all well and good but if you were not ( highest levels of unemployment for years) then tough. No you can place the blame at the feet of the trade unions for all the unemployment not MT had MT not come down hard on the unions and their leaders like that ******* Scargill there would have been double the amount of unemployment. I would willingly go with out mail if the Royal mail management where to sack all the useless striking employees tonight . Grant . |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
"derek" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 11:22:19 +0000, Robert Woolley wrote: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:33:06 +0000, derek wrote: Last year was the first since (IIRC) 1957 that there was not one inch of new motorway. This government have been in power 6 years! [snip] My journey times are longer now by about20% than they were in 1974 when I first took a job involving extensive travelling despite significantly better cars. So despite all this roadbuilding, your journey times have gone up? All what roadbuilding? The motorways in Scotland were complete (all but 15 miles) before 1970. That's to all intents and puposes 35 years ago. As I said it's like driving round the old East Germany. And now like any old system maintenance is a big source of downtime. Let's face it every other system that's tried to run using 35 year old infrastructure has bitten the dust (The Mills, The Mines, The Steelworks, USW, USW.) Standards have improved in 35 years so, nowadays any road works even on the verges and 1 lane is closed down leaving only one in operation, and then the queing starts big time. The main road north through Newcastle goes directly past the biggest retail shopping centre in Europe, the exit empties right on to it. So Aunt Agatha who lives in Ponteland a few miles away gets tangled up in with the Beer Lorries going to Edinburgh every time she goes to buy an M&S pizza. Have you considered the possibility that roadbuidling doesn't solve congestion? Have you thought of offering that argument (Housebuilding is pointless) to the homeless? Or greater food production is futile, (the hungry will just eat it) to the starving. Why do you imagine ethernet networks have increased in capacity 100 fold? It's not been tried and found wanting, it's been wanted and found trying. DG Im afraid countless studies have found that roadbuilding is not the answer to the problem. People have chosen to travel through the freedomn of choice that roads and increased wealth have given them, thus perpetuating the problem. To continue to build roads will continue the problem. The answer is puvblic transport, but public transport cannot cater for all journeys and therefore over time journeys will need to become more corridored. For example go into any city during the am peak and the tidality of the flow is there to be seen. IF we were to get all of the people from their cars onto public transport, or even better living nearer to the workplace, the congestion would be far less. No doubt you have a big swanky car that has one person in it most of the time taking up all of that roadspace, when really all most people need arte a seat. If roads are expected to last we need to reduce the wear and tear on them whic in itself has been brought about by the greater use of road transport (the main damage to roads actually aoccurs from HGVs and PSVs, however PSVs transport peoiple more effectively). This again needs more of us out of our cars. Without cars on the urban road network public transport would be faster and more reliable. As for the maintenence of roads well normally it involves patching (completed very quickly around 2 hours) or overlaying (approx 2 days). oNly on rare occassions is a complete reconstruction carried out, and as I have said this wear and tear is due to use not age. I think your justification using ethernet capacity is a bit irrelevant. We know that building more roads is a) environmentally damaging b) increases usage so essentially provides no longterm greater net capacity. So where do you stop, when the whole country is one great network of asphalt??? Why not use the technologies to reduce travel more??? |
Britains Crap Roads, Answers wanted
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