On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:54:20 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

wrote:

So where in the UK is it possible to visit by coach that can't also be
visited by train + local bus? I've travelled by national express twice in
my life. Once because my cousin persuaded me and once because I thought
"perhaps its improved". It hadn't. Never ever again. Why people do it I
have
no idea.

You spend hours in traffic jams in a cramped seat and it takes 6 hours to
go
****ing nowhere as the damn bus does a spider crawl through 101 little
towns
to drop off come crusties or lavtian fruit pickers. An utterly horrid
form of
transport.

I've used National Express on occasions over the years for a mixture of
reasons:

* Getting an overnight journey between London & Edinburgh when I need to be
there by morning. There aren't many jams at night and the stops are all
reasonable. Compared to the cost of the sleeper, or the cost and difficult
early morning travel to fly it wasn't bad.

* Getting to Lancaster one weekend when the West Coast Main Line was ****ed
by engineering works.

* Getting back to Canterbury one night when I'd missed the last train from
London.

When a student in Cantebury I found some of my contemporaries were keen on
coaches and often society trips to London were done on National Express
rather than rail. I don't remember them being particularly jammed.

Whenever I've had to go to Oxford I've used the Oxford Tube to get there and
back - it's quite a good journey and not cramped at all.


You might be interested in this:
http://tinyurl.com/nzwaoo
or:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...nd-bus-service

On 19 Aug 2009 18:06:28 GMT, James Farrar
wrote:

Mizter T wrote in
:


On Aug 19, 12:41*pm, wrote:

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:08:13 -0700 (PDT)

Mizter T wrote:
You're the only person who's even mentioned coach travel - James
certainly didn't.

Why else would someone be down in victoria bus station then? Unless
he meant that patch of tarmac outside the rail station which I don't
think y
ou
could reasonaly call a bus "station".

You might not "reasonaly" call it a bus station but that's what
everyone else calls it (including TfL). The coaches go from Victoria
Coach Station.

You did very well not to finish that post with "you moron".


Calling boltar a "moron" would be a compliment.

He/she/it does not even approach "moron" status. ;-)

On 19 Aug, 10:55, Tom Barry wrote:
David Jackman wrote:
"Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_
:

an anxious 521 regular

Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee National and
the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't expect
it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of the
bendies!!) *

David * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Um, as usual in this debate people forget the large increase in
passenger numbers since 2002, much as people forget the large increase
in passenger size since Routemaster days when moaning about modern buses
being so big and wide and everything and forget the large increase in
car ownership since the streets were nice and clear* and had fewer
traffic lights, one way streets, traffic wardens, bus lanes and clutter.

This is presumably the reason behind having so many seats removed from
the buses - someone did the maths and worked out that either PVR goes to
stupid-o-clock or you run 'em full and standing. *Actually, does anyone
have the National's seat/standing ratio figures?

Tom

* which they weren't of course, I'm just having a rant at radical
nostalgia freaks as usual. *Reasonable, since they appear to want to
raid my wallet to pay for their fantasies.

Also, don't forget that the routes are different anyway. Overlapping
routes have been added in some places and removed in others.

The general shift to shorter routes may add to overcrowding in some
ways and reduce it in others.

Railist wrote in
:

On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:

"Chris Read" wrote in news:F-qdnaM_
:

an anxious 521 regular

Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee
National
and
the route worked just fine prior to bendification I really wouldn't
exp
ect
it to be a big deal (and much less eventful than the early days of
the bendies!!) *

You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed
since those days of yore.

I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with
two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for
other routes...


Waterloo Road in the morning peak sees queues build up at the bus stops and
the majority of buses leave with crush loads - with the 521 you wouldn't
expect to get on the first bus to depart but join one of three queues (one
for each door). All very British.

In the evening you can usually get a bus from the Aldwych fairly quickly
but if you are going beyond Waterloo and want a specifc route it can be a
very fustrating experience.

In article . 145,
pleasereplytogroup (David Jackman) wrote:

Railist wrote in
:

On 18 Aug, 23:29, Mizter T wrote:
On Aug 18, 9:52*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:

"Chris Read" wrote in
:

an anxious 521 regular

Given that a MEC is basically an updated version of a standee
National and the route worked just fine prior to bendification I
really wouldn't expect it to be a big deal (and much less eventful
than the early days of the bendies!!) *

You're making the presumption that passenger numbers haven't changed
since those days of yore.

I've noticed the 507 has been crush loaded on several occasions, with
two packed buses leaving at the same time. This doesn't bode well for
other routes...

Waterloo Road in the morning peak sees queues build up at the bus
stops and the majority of buses leave with crush loads - with the
521 you wouldn't expect to get on the first bus to depart but join
one of three queues (one for each door). All very British.

In the evening you can usually get a bus from the Aldwych fairly
quickly but if you are going beyond Waterloo and want a specifc
route it can be a very fustrating experience.

Time to reopen the Aldwych branch and extend it to Waterloo?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:55:09 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

Actually, does anyone
have the National's seat/standing ratio figures?

28 seats and 46 standees in Red Arrow mode
36 seats and 27 standees in normal configuration

This is for the Leyland National 2 before they were "East Lancs
Greenway" converted. Source from a book dated 1993.

Thanks Paul - my Red Arrow crib sheet now reads:

Bus Seats Stands Total %sts %stnds stnds/sts ratio
MBS 25 48 73 34% 66% 1.92
N/nal2 28 46 74 38% 62% 1.64
CitaroG 49 100 149 33% 67% 2.04
MEC 21 76 97 22% 78% 3.62

From which it looks like the best seat ratio was indeed the National 2
and by far the worst is Boris's Cattle Truck. It also shows quite how
many more people you have to carry on 21st century Red Arrow routes,
which was rather my point. There were apparently only 41 Greenways in
total for more routes back in the day, while the two remaining routes
will need 49 much bigger capacity buses between them.

Tom

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:55:37 +0100
Bruce wrote:
He/she/it does not even approach "moron" status. ;-)

Well you should know, after all , you're the benchmark.

B2003

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:20 +0100
Bruce wrote:
You might be interested in this:
http://tinyurl.com/nzwaoo
or:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...greyhound-bus-
ervice

So a few 2nd hand nat-ex buses will be given a respray and a "greyhound"
transfer slapped on the side. Yawn. Its not like suddenly the view will
change to cactuses and red sandstone buttes while sitting in a traffic
jam on the Westway.

B2003

In article , says...
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:20 +0100
Bruce wrote:

So a few 2nd hand nat-ex buses will be given a respray and a "greyhound"
transfer slapped on the side. Yawn. Its not like suddenly the view will
change to cactuses and red sandstone buttes while sitting in a traffic
jam on the Westway.

B2003



I don't think so, have you looked at one?

http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/...pfirst_news/13
_Side_view_Greyhound_bus.tif

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:44:52 +0100
Jim Brittin [wake up to reply] wrote:
I don't think so, have you looked at one?

http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/...pfirst_news/13
_Side_view_Greyhound_bus.tif

Ok , they're buying new buses. But it doesn't change the fact that most of
the romance or whatever you want to call it associated with Greyhound is
down to the countryside of the USA they drive through, not the buses
themselves. Here its just another bus operator. But perhaps I'm just being
cynical.

B2003