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Old October 8th 09, 11:24 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
CJB CJB is offline
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Default First train tested on East London Line

Monday, 5 October saw the first ever London Overground train take to
the 1 billion new track from New Cross Gate to Dalston Junction on
the extended East London Line.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/h...00/8294848.stm



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Old October 8th 09, 11:30 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 04:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
CJB wrote:
Monday, 5 October saw the first ever London Overground train take to
the =A31 billion new track from New Cross Gate to Dalston Junction on
the extended East London Line.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/h..._8294000/8294=
848.stm


Just out of interest - is this line going to be dedicated to ELL services only
or has the infrastructure been set up so it can be used as a short cut by
freight trains and maybe a diversionary route for other services?

B2003

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Old October 8th 09, 12:31 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

wrote in message
On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 04:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
CJB wrote:
Monday, 5 October saw the first ever London Overground train take to
the =A31 billion new track from New Cross Gate to Dalston Junction on
the extended East London Line.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/london/h..._8294000/8294=
848.stm


Just out of interest - is this line going to be dedicated to ELL
services only or has the infrastructure been set up so it can be used
as a short cut by freight trains and maybe a diversionary route for
other services?


Would tight clearance in the Thames Tunnel be a limiting factor? Other
than that, I can't see what would stop other trains using the line.


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Old October 8th 09, 12:56 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
wrote in message


Just out of interest - is this line going to be dedicated to ELL
services only or has the infrastructure been set up so it can be used
as a short cut by freight trains and maybe a diversionary route for
other services?


Would tight clearance in the Thames Tunnel be a limiting factor? Other
than that, I can't see what would stop other trains using the line.


I don't think there are any significant gauging issues there - I suspect the
only practical thing keeping diverted passenger services off the route would
be lack of capacity - it is intended to run the 16 tph 7/7. But in dire
emergency you wouldn't think there'd be a problem getting at least any other
DC Electrostar variant through.

Having said that would there ever be a practical requirement - the only
thing I can think of might be ECS moves to recover stock after an emergency
Thameslink closure (or vice versa) but they can use the WLL?

Someone will now say it can't be done because the core ELL isn't part of the
'national network', but IMHO that is purely an administrative obstacle.

Can't see Freight though, although it would be gauge (and gradient)
dependent too, only 92s would really be suitable traction, and they don't
seem to have route cleared them in south London at all yet...

Paul S



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Old October 8th 09, 02:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

In article ,
"Paul Scott" wrote:


I don't think there are any significant gauging issues there - I suspect the
only practical thing keeping diverted passenger services off the route would
be lack of capacity - it is intended to run the 16 tph 7/7. But in dire
emergency you wouldn't think there'd be a problem getting at least any other
DC Electrostar variant through.


I think if they'd had a bit more cash they could have at least added a
third line along the stretch from Dalston to wherever possible
southwards - after all that trackbed used to have four tracks - I think?

E.


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Old October 8th 09, 02:44 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line



"eastender" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Paul Scott" wrote:


I don't think there are any significant gauging issues there - I suspect
the
only practical thing keeping diverted passenger services off the route
would
be lack of capacity - it is intended to run the 16 tph 7/7. But in dire
emergency you wouldn't think there'd be a problem getting at least any
other
DC Electrostar variant through.


I think if they'd had a bit more cash they could have at least added a
third line along the stretch from Dalston to wherever possible
southwards - after all that trackbed used to have four tracks - I think?

What would be the point? You could hardly get M I Brunel (even assisted by
his son) back to dig you another tunnel under the Thames.

Peter

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Old October 8th 09, 03:29 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:16:26 +0100 someone who may be eastender
wrote this:-

I think if they'd had a bit more cash they could have at least added a
third line along the stretch from Dalston to wherever possible
southwards - after all that trackbed used to have four tracks - I think?


The line was widened over the years, but IIRC four tracks ran all
the way northwards from Broad Street station to Dalston Junction.
IIRC they were called the No 1 and No 2 lines and it was the former
which were electrified. At Dalston Junction four lines turned west
and two lines turned west. The electrified lines were used by
services to places like Watford Junction and Richmond, the
non-electrified lines were used by services to places like Welwyn
Garden City and, in earlier times, services to the docks.



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Old October 8th 09, 03:35 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

"David Hansen" wrote in message

On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:16:26 +0100 someone who may be eastender
wrote this:-

I think if they'd had a bit more cash they could have at least added
a third line along the stretch from Dalston to wherever possible
southwards - after all that trackbed used to have four tracks - I
think?


The line was widened over the years, but IIRC four tracks ran all
the way northwards from Broad Street station to Dalston Junction.
IIRC they were called the No 1 and No 2 lines and it was the former
which were electrified. At Dalston Junction four lines turned west
and two lines turned west. The electrified lines were used by
services to places like Watford Junction and Richmond, the
non-electrified lines were used by services to places like Welwyn
Garden City and, in earlier times, services to the docks.


I believe that the two new stations on the old Broad St line take
advantage of the four-track formation. In other words, the new platforms
are built over the previous outer lines. So they wouldn't have been able
to fit in more than double track on the viaduct south of Dalston.


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Old October 8th 09, 03:56 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line


"Recliner" wrote in message
...

I believe that the two new stations on the old Broad St line take
advantage of the four-track formation. In other words, the new platforms
are built over the previous outer lines. So they wouldn't have been able
to fit in more than double track on the viaduct south of Dalston.


They certainly do, in fact the BBC time lapse video linked to in the other
thread shows how the two tracks take full advantage of the whole formation -
using both of the existing Kingsland Rd overbridges is a further example.

Paul S


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Old October 8th 09, 04:46 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default First train tested on East London Line

Going back to the comment about freight, surely a leading question is
''what freight?''.

Time and time again in this forum I see cooments about retaining or
enhancing capcity for freight ... but ... apart from a few routes like
out of Southampton or Felixstowe, there is nothing in the way of
sustained *growing* freight. Yes we get a block train here or a new
flow there, but they are often replacements for something else [that
the media releases conveniently forget to mention] or are short term -
5 years or even 10 years per flow does not justify the serious works
needed to run freight under London.

I agree the issue about LO being operationally NR is a red herring,
but surely it is funded by TfL, and while that organisation does
contribute to the freight deabte, it surely is not in the business of
funding infrastructure work to allow the occasional diverted or short-
cut freight or path. (Obviously its involved where freights *already*
run, and the NLL is a serious freight line.)

On top of I don't see what contribution freight over ELLX would make
at all. Its in the wrong place, and actually trying to path freight to
potential main line junctions would be horrendous.

If one argues that it should be ready for the future, when road truck
diesel oil as run out, and freight swings to rail. But, at that point,
the London passenger rail network will be under such strain that there
won't be freight paths in between passenger trains because buses and
cars won't have fuel either.

I think some people seem to have locked themselves in ''its ex BR''
''ex main line'' therefore it must take freight. But would the same
people suggest freight on the Met and District lines during their
respective upgrades ? And start talking about 92s around the Circle ?
Ditto, Crossrail and Thameslink ?

--
Nick



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