On 3 Jan, 03:42, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:40:25 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service machines
where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and auto-
topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by
their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested,
you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do
not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones
covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel out of
your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

Only if you don't touch out. You have an "unresolved journey bomb" (a
phrase you yourself coined in post
)
which lingers on your card and goes off if you don't touch out.


But I thought the conclusion then was that they OEP stayed till you
needed it.

In any case, the timing would be very tight. Do you start your OEP
journey, get a call to get off somewhere different (all within your
zones) and have to remember to remove the OEP, assuming you are at an
LU station where you can, before the timeout or else get an unresolved
journey?

On 3 Jan, 03:34, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:36:01 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
And anyway, I think it must only apply if using LM or SN, in which
case one won't often have the choice of "what turns up first".

But it does show the complete nonsense of it, because surely the issue
is not which train you travel in, but whether you are potentially
travelling to an unbarriered NR station without needing to pass
through any barrier till the destination?

The issue *is* which train you travel in, because TfL are prepared to
take the revenue risk that you might not touch out, and the TOCs
aren't.

Oyster charges between points, not according to which train you sit
in, which can't be known.

The reason for OEPs is supposed to be the number of unbarriered NR
stations that will be part of the scheme. The revenue is distributed
according to where PAYG starts and finishes, surely? If I touch in at
Oxford Circus and out at Harrow & Wealdstone, the revenue isn't
distributed differently if I change at Wembley Central to LM.

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 3 Jan, 03:42, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:40:25 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service machines
where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and
auto-topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by
their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested,
you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do
not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones
covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel out
of your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

Only if you don't touch out. You have an "unresolved journey bomb" (a
phrase you yourself coined in post
)
which lingers on your card and goes off if you don't touch out.

But I thought the conclusion then was that they OEP stayed till you
needed it.

Why the threat to demand its removal then?

In any case, the timing would be very tight. Do you start your OEP
journey, get a call to get off somewhere different (all within your
zones) and have to remember to remove the OEP, assuming you are at an
LU station where you can, before the timeout or else get an unresolved
journey?

If you touch out within your zones the OEP-initiated charge is cancelled
so the bomb is defused, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 3 Jan, 12:30, wrote:
In article
,





(MIG) wrote:
On 3 Jan, 03:42, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:40:25 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about OEPs..

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service machines
where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and
auto-topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by
their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested,
you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do
not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones
covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel out
of your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

Only if you don't touch out. You have an "unresolved journey bomb" (a
phrase you yourself coined in post
)
which lingers on your card and goes off if you don't touch out.

But I thought the conclusion then was that they OEP stayed till you
needed it.

Why the threat to demand its removal then?

In any case, the timing would be very tight. *Do you start your OEP
journey, get a call to get off somewhere different (all within your
zones) and have to remember to remove the OEP, assuming you are at an
LU station where you can, before the timeout or else get an unresolved
journey?

If you touch out within your zones the OEP-initiated charge is cancelled
so the bomb is defused, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Surely" is not the word to use in this context ...

The bomb is not defused, just "deprimed". It primes itself next time
you touch in.

It took me a while to work out, but I think that the risky context
must be when you know that you didn't use your OEP, although you
avoided a penalty by touching out in your zones, but next week you
plan to extend outside of London with a paper ticket. If the OEP was
still lurking on your card, that journey would be unresolved (if you
touched in to start it).

This ain't exactly obvious from the briefing though, is it?

In article
,
(MIG) wrote:

On 3 Jan, 12:30, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 3 Jan, 03:42, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:40:25 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about
OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service
machines where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and
auto-topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered
by their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If
requested, you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to
make sure they do not incur an incomplete journey whilst
travelling within the zones covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel
out of your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

Only if you don't touch out. You have an "unresolved journey bomb"
(a phrase you yourself coined in post
)
which lingers on your card and goes off if you don't touch out.

But I thought the conclusion then was that they OEP stayed till you
needed it.

Why the threat to demand its removal then?

In any case, the timing would be very tight. *Do you start your OEP
journey, get a call to get off somewhere different (all within your
zones) and have to remember to remove the OEP, assuming you are at
an LU station where you can, before the timeout or else get an
unresolved journey?

If you touch out within your zones the OEP-initiated charge is
cancelled so the bomb is defused, surely?

"Surely" is not the word to use in this context ...

The bomb is not defused, just "deprimed". It primes itself next time
you touch in.

Fair enough.

It took me a while to work out, but I think that the risky context
must be when you know that you didn't use your OEP, although you
avoided a penalty by touching out in your zones, but next week you
plan to extend outside of London with a paper ticket. If the OEP was
still lurking on your card, that journey would be unresolved (if you
touched in to start it).

This ain't exactly obvious from the briefing though, is it?

I see. So, why so little publicity to Oyster Season Ticket holders?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 3 Jan, 12:56, wrote:
In article
,





(MIG) wrote:
On 3 Jan, 12:30, wrote:
In article
,

(MIG) wrote:
On 3 Jan, 03:42, asdf wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:40:25 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:
A FoI request to TfL has revealed some more information about
OEPs.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ension_permits

Of interest is a full list of National Rail self-service
machines where PAYG can be added.

The added stations can be used to pick up online purchases and
auto-topup from the 13th January.

Look at this bit

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered
by their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If
requested, you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to
make sure they do not incur an incomplete journey whilst
travelling within the zones covered by their season ticket."

So are they saying that if you get an OEP and then don't travel
out of your zones, you get an incomplete journey?

Only if you don't touch out. You have an "unresolved journey bomb"
(a phrase you yourself coined in post
)
which lingers on your card and goes off if you don't touch out.

But I thought the conclusion then was that they OEP stayed till you
needed it.

Why the threat to demand its removal then?

In any case, the timing would be very tight. *Do you start your OEP
journey, get a call to get off somewhere different (all within your
zones) and have to remember to remove the OEP, assuming you are at
an LU station where you can, before the timeout or else get an
unresolved journey?

If you touch out within your zones the OEP-initiated charge is
cancelled so the bomb is defused, surely?

"Surely" is not the word to use in this context ...

The bomb is not defused, just "deprimed". *It primes itself next time
you touch in.

Fair enough.

It took me a while to work out, but I think that the risky context
must be when you know that you didn't use your OEP, although you
avoided a penalty by touching out in your zones, but next week you
plan to extend outside of London with a paper ticket. *If the OEP was
still lurking on your card, that journey would be unresolved (if you
touched in to start it).

This ain't exactly obvious from the briefing though, is it?

I see. So, why so little publicity to Oyster Season Ticket holders?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I was just thinking I hadn't seen any outside of this group.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 05:00:11 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

It took me a while to work out, but I think that the risky context
must be when you know that you didn't use your OEP, although you
avoided a penalty by touching out in your zones, but next week you
plan to extend outside of London with a paper ticket. *If the OEP was
still lurking on your card, that journey would be unresolved (if you
touched in to start it).

This ain't exactly obvious from the briefing though, is it?

I see. So, why so little publicity to Oyster Season Ticket holders?

I was just thinking I hadn't seen any outside of this group.

I wonder if there's an element of "surely the TOCs won't persist with
this silly scheme for long, so let's not bother spending any money
promoting it"?

(c.f. the poor waiting facilities for Eurostar at Paris Gare du Nord -
because the French thought we'd soon get rid of the silly security
nonsense and they'd no longer be needed...)

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:52:17 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Note that there are no fares booklets for the 2010 increase. They have
been abolished. You are stuck with using the TfL website.

Having logged on to the work LAN I have seen a notice which says that
there will be a series of "Oyster customer guides" (4 in total) to
replace the traditional fares booklet (deemed to be too complicated for
passengers to understand). The guides should be available at LU stations
from today (4/1/10).

Any sign on the TfL web site yet?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

asdf wrote:

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:20:56 -0600,
wrote:

[2010 fares document]


It's also very hard on those without access to the internet or familiarity
with how to use it, mainly the old, if the internet is the only means of
access to information.

I'm surprised some disabled groups haven't got on to them. They don't get
free travel on NR or do they?

A disabled freedom pass does grant free travel on NR (and without the
M-F a.m. peak restriction that over-60s have).


The freedom pass page say that the M-F am peak restriction does hold on
NR. http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/freedompass/whenwhere/rail.htm

The only case I can see where the disabled pass is allowed where older
persons is not is Southern services between Clapham Junction and Harrow
& Wealdstone before 9.00am Monday to Friday. (from the map)

--
Mark

Paul Corfield wrote

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:52:17 +0000, Paul Corfield

wrote:

Note that there are no fares booklets for the 2010 increase. They
have
been abolished. You are stuck with using the TfL website.

Having logged on to the work LAN I have seen a notice which says that
there will be a series of "Oyster customer guides" (4 in total) to
replace the traditional fares booklet (deemed to be too complicated
for
passengers to understand). The guides should be available at LU
stations
from today (4/1/10).

And I picked up one of these, "Getting around with Oyster" at Leicester
Square yesterday.

18 pp plus a "Register now" tear out.

A replacement for the fares booklet in part.

p12-13 "what do I pay with Oyster" covers, for Adult undiscounted only,
Tfl LU, DLR, LO, bus/tram Oyster single fares and daily price capping
zones 1-6

p14 has new Oyster PAYG 'indicative' single fares for National Rail.

There is nothing on 'mixed' Tfl/NR fares though there are examples to
be found in the NR booklet _Oyster pay as you go on National Rail_ From
2 January 2010 (which has TFL and NR on the cover)

The TFL booklet, same title except missing 'From'
_Oyster pay as you go on National Rail_ 2 January 2010
(has Mayor of London, NR and TFL on cover)
This has no fare examples but a nice TFL map, with zones, of "Oyster
rail services in London".)

To be fair the old fares booklet was also 'indicative' single fares
since it did not mention the 'short hop' LU fares.

==
Google says
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/2732.aspx
"You can also order free large print copies of the Getting around with
Oyster Guide."

which points to the accessability page
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingar...des/default.as
px
which need updating since it only has "guide to fares and tickets".
==

Still to be provided would be guides to fares for children, students,
new deal and other discount holders; Railcard and Network Card holders;
day and season travel cards.


--
Mike D