"J. Chisholm" wrote in news:e2t8v3$nd6$1
@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk:


You are obviously a very amateur driver. I've been driving for 40 years
and at one time drove 30k+ miles pa.
To date I've had no tickets, fines, endorsements or penalty points.

Jim Chisholm


If it takes you a year to do 30k miles, you are obviously a slow driver,
hence the lack of tickets, fines, endorsements or penalty points.


--
Stuart

"end user" v. A command regrettably not implemented in most systems.

Brimstone wrote:
In ,
Nick Finnigan said:

Chris! wrote:

John Rowland wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute
not only drivers who go through the final stop line when the
traffic light is reds, but also drivers who go through the initial
stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.


Why?

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.

Ian wrote:

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message Ian wrote in


If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at night,
it's very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance so you plan
your braking based on the assumption that the stop line is level with the
traffic light pole. Then as you get closer, you suddenly discover that you
need to stop further back that you'd anticipated.

The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they are
level with the car stop line.


How about the cycle lane on the nearside of the road on the approach to the
traffic lights? If you can't see that you need your eyes tested. If you can
see it then you should anticipate that there is likely to be a cycle box at
the traffic lights.

Is that really the case? It seems most illogical to me! The benefits of
having a cycle box are far greater where there's no cycle lane.

--
Aidan Stanger
http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
Brimstone wrote:
In ,
Nick Finnigan said:

Chris! wrote:

John Rowland wrote:


The City Of London Police have announced that they will prosecute
not only drivers who go through the final stop line when the
traffic light is reds, but also drivers who go through the initial
stop line before the cycle box.


About time too. I can only recall two occasions on my daily cycle
commute when there haven't been cars in the cycle box.

On a busy road, that is legal and expected.


Why?

Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over the
first white line at the time the signal turns red.

Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Ian

In message of Sat, 29 Apr
2006 19:58:47 in uk.transport.london, Aidan Stanger
writes
Ian wrote:

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message Ian wrote in


If you have
difficulty stopping at the correct line you shouldn't be driving.

In my experience, in wet weather (when the road is shiny) or at night,
it's very hard to see that there's a cycle box from a distance so you plan
your braking based on the assumption that the stop line is level with the
traffic light pole. Then as you get closer, you suddenly discover that you
need to stop further back that you'd anticipated.

The solution to this is to move the traffic light poles back so they are
level with the car stop line.


How about the cycle lane on the nearside of the road on the approach to the
traffic lights? If you can't see that you need your eyes tested. If you can
see it then you should anticipate that there is likely to be a cycle box at
the traffic lights.

Is that really the case? It seems most illogical to me! The benefits of
having a cycle box are far greater where there's no cycle lane.


Such a situation should never exist. A cyclist can only bypass the first
stop line via the cycle lane - that one is new to me.

I am going to quote http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#10
Meaning of stop line and references to light signals
43. - (1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), "stop line" in
relation to light signals for the control of vehicular traffic means -
[snip]
(2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed
in conjunction with light signals, "stop line" in relation to those
light signals means -

(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal
cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that
line; or
(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded
beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle
lane.

Diagram 1001.2 is in http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113am.gif
--
Walter Briscoe

Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over the
first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Nope. If the vehicles are close enough, one of them will have to wait
between the different Stop Lines, in order to obey the HC and the law.
And vehicles approaching traffic lights in London are often close enough
to stop a Taxi pulling into the gap.

Of course they are. The stop line for cars is before the cycle box.
The cycle box is for cycles.

And cycles are for ****wits, and thus we close the circle, grasshopper.


And coronary heart disease will kill you but not ****wit cyclists.

In message , Walter Briscoe
writes

Such a situation should never exist. A cyclist can only bypass the
first stop line via the cycle lane - that one is new to me.

The requirement for an advance stop box to be fed by a cycle lane is
relatively new. There are older examples where this doesn't happen, e.g:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/_CTC/images/Ca.../GYork0397.jpg

http://www.ctc.org.uk/_CTC/images/Ca...licy/F1036.jpg
--
Paul Terry

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Nope. If the vehicles are close enough, one of them will have to wait
between the different Stop Lines, in order to obey the HC and the law. And
vehicles approaching traffic lights in London are often close enough to
stop a Taxi pulling into the gap.

So you are talking about the case where a car is in a queue moving slowly
forward. The traffic lights change from green after he has passed the first
stop line and before he has passed the second line. TSRGD2002 Section 5
paragraph 43 says,

'2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed in
conjunction with light signals, "stop line" in relation to those light
signals means -


(a) the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal
cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that
line; or

(b) the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded
beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle
lane.'
The road marking in the diagram is a stop line incidentally.
However, red light cameras are not normally activated until a few seconds
after the lights have turned red and they take two photos a short time apart
to show that the vehicle was moving after the red light came on. If a car
stopped at a red light inside the cycle box he hasn't committed an offence
unless he entered the box whilst the red light was on. In which case he
would have passed the first stop line a few seconds after the traffic lights
went red.
Ian

Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message

Ian wrote:

"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


Walter has posted HC rule 154 which shows it is legal.
If vehicles are close together, one will generally have proceeded over
the first white line at the time the signal turns red.


Only if the driver ignores the meaning of an amber traffic light.

Nope. If the vehicles are close enough, one of them will have to wait
between the different Stop Lines, in order to obey the HC and the law. And
vehicles approaching traffic lights in London are often close enough to
stop a Taxi pulling into the gap.


So you are talking about the case where a car is in a queue moving slowly
forward. The traffic lights change from green after he has passed the first
stop line and before he has passed the second line.

And other cases.