"Chris Read" wrote in message
...
"Chris!" wrote:
Chris Read wrote:

A much more helpful use of cameras would be to
catch those drivers who obstruct pedestrian
crossings at traffic light controlled junctions, making
pedestrians walk around them whilst they wait
for the next green phase.

The first step would have to be to make it illegal to stop
there ie implie there is a yellow box at all ped crossings

See http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/18.htm

168: "In queuing traffic, you should keep the crossing clear."

"Should", not "must".

On 29 Apr 2006 17:33:07 -0700, "Jonathan Morris"
wrote:

Definitely. We see a lot of jokes on here about people wanting to kill
cyclists that jump lights, but I see pedestrians shouting at, punching
and even pushing cyclists (one or two have fallen off as a result) at a
single crossing - the one that featured on London Tonight not so long
ago, as it happens.

Some little scrote decided to try to push me off my bike as I waited
at a red light in Farnham yesterday. He obviously didn't expect me to
grab him, jump off, and express my general disapproval of that sort of
behaviour. He begged me not to damage his new t-shirt, but, sadly, it
seemed to get torn...

His mates across the road got a good laugh at him though :-)

(yoof of today, not very bright, etc etc - when I were a lad in Hull,
the people who used to try to knock cyclists off their bikes always
had the sense to do it in large groups, just in case the cyclist
fought back)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Colin McKenzie wrote:
Nick Finnigan wrote:

You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching
some (green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front
of them. Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover
the brake pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so
safely) stop before reaching the first stop line. You can, however,
stop safely before passing the second stop line. You can also get past
the second stop line before the lights change to red (based on
experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Stop at the second line.

Though as the lines are so close together it's rarely as cut and dried
as this. Stopping halfway betwen would still allow a bike to fit in
front of you, and is worth doing if you can.

I believe reversing after stopping would also be legal.

Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second stop line
before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it says in
TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on amber?

Arthur Figgis wrote:
Some little scrote decided to try to push me off my bike as I waited
at a red light in Farnham yesterday. He obviously didn't expect me to
grab him, jump off, and express my general disapproval of that sort of
behaviour.

Sounds like he wasn't the brightest lad in the world, but that missing
my point a bit. The people I see 'attacking' cyclists (verbally or
physically) are only doing it because they're going through red lights
on a pedestrian crossing.

In article , Nick Finnigan wrote:
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second stop line
before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it says in
TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on amber?

TSRGD2002 36(1)(e)

"the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as
the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to
the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond
the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or
green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;"

For a car, TSGRD2002 43(2)(b) defines "stop line" as being the first stop
line, or, if you've passed it, the second stop line. So, if you can's stop
safely before the first line, but you can stop safely before the second,
that is what you must do.

Brian
--
* * * * ** * * ** ** * *
* ** * * ** * * * *
* * * * * *

"Brian Widdas" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Finnigan wrote:
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely
before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second stop line
before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it says in
TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on amber?

TSRGD2002 36(1)(e)

"the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as
the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to
the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond
the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or
green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;"

For a car, TSGRD2002 43(2)(b) defines "stop line" as being the first stop
line, or, if you've passed it, the second stop line. So, if you can's stop
safely before the first line, but you can stop safely before the second,
that is what you must do.

And according to the originator of this thread you
will get a ticket for doing this.

So surely the rule is, if you can't stop in time
for the first then you can also legally cross the
second.

tim

Brian Widdas wrote:
In article , Nick Finnigan wrote:


What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on amber?


TSRGD2002 36(1)(e)

"the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as
the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to
the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond
the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or
green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;"

For a car, TSGRD2002 43(2)(b) defines "stop line" as being the first stop
line, or, if you've passed it, the second stop line. So, if you can's stop
safely before the first line, but you can stop safely before the second,
that is what you must do.

If you increase your speed before crossing the first line, so that you
are not then able to stop (safely) before crossing the second line, you
will still be able to obey that rule whilst passing both lines on amber.

"Brian Widdas" wrote in message
In article Nick Finnigan wrote:
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed, with no
other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards, approaching some
(green) traffic lights which have these two stop lines in front of them.
Then the lights change to amber; you move your foot to cover the brake
pedal, and realize that you can not (physically, and so safely) stop
before reaching the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely
before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second stop line
before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it says in
TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on amber?

TSRGD2002 36(1)(e)

"the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same prohibition as
the red signal, except that, as respects any vehicle which is so close to
the stop line that it cannot safely be stopped without proceeding beyond
the stop line, it shall convey the same indication as the green signal or
green arrow signal which was shown immediately before it;"

For a car, TSGRD2002 43(2)(b) defines "stop line" as being the first stop
line, or, if you've passed it, the second stop line. So, if you can's stop
safely before the first line, but you can stop safely before the second,
that is what you must do.


That is how I see it too.

Ian

tim (back at home) wrote:
"Brian Widdas" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Finnigan wrote:
Ian wrote:
"Nick Finnigan" wrote in message


You are driving (a motor vehicle) at a safe and legal speed,
with no other vehicles moving in your direction for 200 yards,
approaching some (green) traffic lights which have these two
stop lines in front of them. Then the lights change to amber;
you move your foot to cover the brake pedal, and realize that
you can not (physically, and so safely) stop before reaching
the first stop line. You can, however, stop safely before
passing the second stop line. You can also get past the second
stop line before the lights change to red (based on experience).

What legal options do you have? Which is the best one?


Legally you should stop at the second stop line. That is what it
says in TSRGD2002 Section 5 paragraph 43 (b).

What makes it not legal to drive past the second stop line on
amber?

TSRGD2002 36(1)(e)

"the amber signal shall, when shown alone, convey the same
prohibition as the red signal, except that, as respects any
vehicle which is so close to the stop line that it cannot safely
be stopped without proceeding beyond the stop line, it shall
convey the same indication as the green signal or green arrow
signal which was shown immediately before it;" For a car, TSGRD2002
43(2)(b) defines "stop line" as being the
first stop line, or, if you've passed it, the second stop line.
So, if you can's stop safely before the first line, but you can
stop safely before the second, that is what you must do.

And according to the originator of this thread you
will get a ticket for doing this.

So surely the rule is, if you can't stop in time
for the first then you can also legally cross the
second.

No! Why would you deduce the rule from what the originator of this
thread wrote (sorry, John, nothing personal!) rather than the actual
regulations?

Here's what Highway Code Rule 154 has to say on the subject:

"Some junctions have advanced stop lines or bus advance areas to allow
cycles and buses to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists,
including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached, and
should avoid encroaching on the marked area. If your vehicle has
proceeded over the first white line at the time the signal goes red, you
MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the
marked area."

By the way, are there any of those "bus advance areas" in London?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)