"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

Hmm. In the peaks it certainly still seems "enforced". But it is a
peculiarly London thing - you won't see it on, say, Merseyrail -
people will just stand still on both sides.


It can depend on how much traffic there is: the Victoria Line down escalator
at Victoria always seems to be stand both sides when I use it during the
evening peaks. Escalators shift more people if they're standing anyway.

D A Stocks

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...

It can depend on how much traffic there is: the Victoria Line down
escalator at Victoria always seems to be stand both sides when I use it
during the evening peaks. Escalators shift more people if they're
standing anyway.

I'd always understood that LU escalators weren't made to have people just
standing still on them and that it can cause them to pack up. Not sure how
right that is, though.

Ian

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...

It can depend on how much traffic there is: the Victoria Line down
escalator at Victoria always seems to be stand both sides when I use it
during the evening peaks. Escalators shift more people if they're
standing anyway.

I'd always understood that LU escalators weren't made to have people just
standing still on them and that it can cause them to pack up. Not sure how
right that is, though.

Ian

There certainly used to be signs at some stations requesting users to stand
both sides when things get busy, and I've seen/heard LU staff with
megaphones asking people to do this at crowded stations when escalator
service is reduced for maintenance.

DAS

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

Hmm. In the peaks it certainly still seems "enforced". But it is a
peculiarly London thing - you won't see it on, say, Merseyrail -
people will just stand still on both sides.


It can depend on how much traffic there is: the Victoria Line down
escalator at Victoria always seems to be stand both sides when I use it
during the evening peaks. Escalators shift more people if they're
standing anyway.

D A Stocks
I don't think it is the wish of most of those using the escalators that they
have to stand, it is simply the number of people using them. As the
escalator rises/falls the gap between people is reduced, people stand more
stairs apart and capacity is reduced. Carrying capacity is less than when
the stair is completely horizontal because of the curve of the stair piece -
I am sure a mathematician can explain this more clearly.

I would be surprised if people standing still can be higher capacity than
people moving! You only have to come off a free moving 60mph road onto a
30mph road to know the traffic immediately closes up and slows down and
queues form.

MaxB

"Batman55" wrote in message
...


I would be surprised if people standing still can be higher capacity than
people moving!
I was stating a fact rather than an opinion. How well it works in practise
depends on how efficiently people load themselves onto adjacent steps of the
escalator, so it helps a lot if everyone knows in advance that they will be
standing both sides.

You only have to come off a free moving 60mph road onto a 30mph road to
know the traffic immediately closes up and slows down and queues form.

The optimum speed for maximum road capacity is around 15 mph; stopping
distance (and thus vehicle spacing) is proportional to the square of speed.
Using road capacity more efficiently is largely what the variable speed
limits on the M25 and elsewhere are all about.

DAS

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
"Batman55" wrote in message
...


I would be surprised if people standing still can be higher capacity than
people moving!
I was stating a fact rather than an opinion. How well it works in practise
depends on how efficiently people load themselves onto adjacent steps of
the escalator, so it helps a lot if everyone knows in advance that they
will be standing both sides.

clip
DAS
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people passing a point, say half way down the
escalator at speed X in 2 columns will carry more than one column at speed X
and the other at 3-4X (which is what walking achieves)?

MaxB

In message , at 22:44:21 on
Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Batman55 remarked:
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people passing a point, say half way down the
escalator at speed X in 2 columns will carry more than one column at speed X
and the other at 3-4X (which is what walking achieves)?

I doubt that walking down more than doubles the throughout, and against
that you have to balance the increased separation between walkers
compared with standees.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 22:44:21 on Tue,
22 Dec 2009, Batman55 remarked:
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people passing a point, say half way down
the
escalator at speed X in 2 columns will carry more than one column at speed
X
and the other at 3-4X (which is what walking achieves)?

I doubt that walking down more than doubles the throughout, and against
that you have to balance the increased separation between walkers compared
with standees.
--
Roland Perry

To save further argument (which I realise is not the objective of the
group), see
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publicati...outamDutta.pdf which
explains everything!

MaxB

In message , at 10:00:13 on
Wed, 23 Dec 2009, Batman55 remarked:
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people passing a point, say half way
down the escalator at speed X in 2 columns will carry more than one
column at speed X and the other at 3-4X (which is what walking achieves)?

I doubt that walking down more than doubles the throughout, and against
that you have to balance the increased separation between walkers compared
with standees.

To save further argument (which I realise is not the objective of the
group), see
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publicati...outamDutta.pdf which
explains everything!

Thanks for the reference.

It mainly explains that there's not an easy answer!

The main result seems to be that walking and standing capacity are
pretty much equal, unless you have very experienced walkers, in which
case it improves for them slightly.
--
Roland Perry

On 2009-12-22, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:44:21 on
Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Batman55 remarked:
I'm sorry? Are you saying that people passing a point, say half way down the
escalator at speed X in 2 columns will carry more than one column at speed X
and the other at 3-4X (which is what walking achieves)?

I doubt that walking down more than doubles the throughout, and against
that you have to balance the increased separation between walkers
compared with standees.

And the walking speed varies quite a lot between individuals, which will
tend to increase the separation.

Also, what about the effect of the queueing for the standing side which
tends to clog up the approach to the escalator and slows down the
would-be walkers?

E.