On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote:



On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote:

On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote:

I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel
from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was
hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the
ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available.. I
did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to
the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office
knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and
one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end
while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper
ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me
that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't
been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on
other routes?

According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an
OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR.

Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I
don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on
entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard.

Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to
load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

The more I read about all this, the more confused I get!

DP

If you mean where passengers use an OSI out of zone(s) - no they will
not need to load another OEP.
When they touch out - OEP is removed and the payg balance resolved for
the correct extension fare
When they touch back in, out of zone, they will be charged the Mixed
Journey Entry / Exit charge - no OEP is required.

On 3 Jan, 11:58, JS wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:42, MIG wrote:





On 3 Jan, 11:20, Daniel wrote:

On 3 Jan, 11:04, MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 10:59, JS wrote:

On 3 Jan, 10:41, MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote:

I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel
from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was
hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the
ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I
did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to
the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office
knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and
one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end
while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper
ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me
that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't
been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on
other routes?

According to the documents posted in another thread, you only need an
OEP if your journey starts on LU/DLR. *You'd be starting on NR.

Given that nothing should be deducted when you start within zones, I
don't know how this all ties up with being deducted a higher amount on
entry, given that you won't need to be deducted when on a travelcard.

Start mode is irrelevant - the original poster correctly attempted to
load an OEP at Charing Cross. *It looks like we have a problem.....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

The more I read about all this, the more confused I get!

Well, in the OEP staff briefing it says, in one place

"Once the OEP is loaded, when the customer touches-in to start a
journey even if it is within a Zone covered by their Season ticket, an
entry charge will be deducted from the card.
If they touch-out still within the Zonal coverage of their Season
ticket, the entry charge will be refunded and the OEP will remain on
the card. If they touch-out in another Zone the fare for the
additional travel will be deducted from the entry charge, the PAYG
balance will be adjusted accordingly and the OEP will be cancelled."

There's another paragraph in the same document which says

"If the customer completes their journey within the zones covered by
their season ticket, the OEP will remain on their card. If requested,
you must remove the OEP from their Oyster card to make sure they do
not incur an incomplete journey whilst travelling within the zones
covered by their season ticket."

I am still grappling with how you can find a ticket office to cancel
your OEP where you couldn't complete your journey by touching out.
Maybe it's only for if you are planning a future journey where you
don't touch out, eg extending a travelcard outside the zones.

So you put an OEP on and don't use it. *Then a few days later you go
from Euston to Tring with a paper extension to your zones and the
train leaves from platform 8, so you touch at a barrier with your
travelcard. *Presumably your lurking OEP would then clobber you for
not touching out at Tring?

What a nightmare. *At least at Euston you could find an LU office
reasonably near to take off the OEP (if you remembered), but that
wouldn't be true at all NR stations where the travelcard was valid.

Again - the advice I have is that all NR TVMs that are Oyster enabled
should also offer the option to set / remove OEPs. *I don't know who
is responsible for effecting the changes required.

Actually, I can't even remember seeing OEPs mentioned anywhere in the
Normal world outside of this group. I doubt if several hundred
thousand holders of season tickets on Oyster have any idea about them.

On 3 Jan, 03:17, Mudchute wrote:
I have a Zone 1 and 2 Travelcard on my Oyster and wanted to travel
from Charing Cross to Catford Bridge this Saturday evening and was
hoping to be able to put an Oyster Extension Permit on at one of the
ticket machines at Charing Cross but this option wasn't available. I
did manage to top up my PAYG balance though. I decided then to go to
the ticket office and (surprise, surprise) nobody in the ticket office
knew what an Oyster Extension Permit was. I told them my situation and
one of them said I could just touch in and touch out at the other end
while someone else told me it would be cheaper if I bought a paper
ticket extension. The TfL website still mentions OEPs so it amazes me
that at a big mainline station like Charing Cross the staff haven't
been trained properly for the launch. Has anyone had similar issues on
other routes?

In the meantime - I reckon the advice was sound - you will be charged
correctly if you simply touch in and out. (No penalty fare would be
enforceable even if they dared to issue).
If you have an annual Z1-2, the advice re paper extension would also
be sound (I think?). You would benefit from the Gold Card discount
applied to the paper ticket(s) that don't apply to your Oyster
extension fare.

On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote:



....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text -

Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be
correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only
briefing their own staff not National Rail.

What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending
outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont
need an OEP.

I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an
OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !!

If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster
and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules
will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash
abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs'
expenses.

It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let
off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash
for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get
extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming
worse than Ryanair on this.)

I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it
is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from
these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can
only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations.

On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote:



On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote:

....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text -

Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be
correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only
briefing their own staff not National Rail.

What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending
outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont
need an OEP.

I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an
OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !!

If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster
and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules
will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash
abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs'
expenses.

It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let
off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash
for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get
extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming
worse than Ryanair on this.)

I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it
is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from
these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can
only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations.

Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the
payg extension agreement. Penalty fares / prosecutions will be
issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL.

Daniel wrote:

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

Not necessarily because an OEP appears to be a one way requirement.
If you initially touch in 'outside' your TC zones clearly you must be
travelling on PAYG already when you reach your zones.

But what happens if you pass through your zones and out the other side must
depend on if you have to cross a barrier line en route as you suggest. Not
sure on that one...

Paul S

On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote:





On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote:

....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text -

Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be
correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only
briefing their own staff not National Rail.

What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending
outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont
need an OEP.

I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an
OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !!

If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster
and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules
will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash
abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs'
expenses.

It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let
off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash
for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get
extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming
worse than Ryanair on this.)

I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it
is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from
these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can
only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations.

But there's still that concept of "journey" that isn't defined. I am
still grappling.

Let's say I live near Stratford and have a zone 1 - 3 season ticket
and want to go to Hadley Wood (zone 6).

Wherever I get on, if it's the weekend and I change at Kings Cross,
then presumably, even if I think my journey started at Stratford, the
journey that counts for the gripper starts at Kings Cross NR and
doesn't need an OEP, or does it?

During the week, if I start at Stratford and go via Moorgate (no
touching on the way) I should have an OEP because I start at an LU
station.

But if I touch in at Maryland (NR) and go via Stratford and Moorgate
(no touching) I don't need an OEP?

In article
,
(JS) wrote:

In the meantime - I reckon the advice was sound - you will be charged
correctly if you simply touch in and out. (No penalty fare would be
enforceable even if they dared to issue).
If you have an annual Z1-2, the advice re paper extension would also
be sound (I think?). You would benefit from the Gold Card discount
applied to the paper ticket(s) that don't apply to your Oyster
extension fare.

If you register the Gold Card on your Oyster Card you do get a railcard
discount on the extension fare, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

If you register the Gold Card on your Oyster Card you do get a
railcard discount on the extension fare, surely?

You cannot register Gold Cards or Network Cards onto Oyster cards

Paul S

On 3 Jan, 12:24, JS wrote:
On 3 Jan, 12:19, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:





On 3 Jan, 11:52, MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 11:23, trainmanUK wrote:

....

In another thread, someone posted the result of an FOI request, which
included a TfL staff briefing, which included this statement.

"An Oyster Extension Permit is only needed when a journey is started
within the zones covered by a Travelcard at a LU/London Overground or
DLR station and involves travel by National Rail beyond its validity."

Seehttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23222/response/62007/attach/4/P....

It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?- Hide quoted text -

Of course as this is a tfl staff briefing document this would be
correct for all the people receiving said document. They are only
briefing their own staff not National Rail.

What they are also saying by implicaton is if your journey is ending
outside your zones but terminates at a LU/LO station then you dont
need an OEP.

I would like to know what the charge will be if you fail to get an
OEP. *Will it be a penalty fare (about £50) !!

If they try that on, cue high profile court cases, the end of Oyster
and the end of penalty fare schemes. *TfL's stretching of the rules
will lift the lid on dodgy practices and end up with a backlash
abolishing some less dodgy ones along with them, a bit like MPs'
expenses.

It would be good if fare-evaders were prosecuted instead of being let
off with a PF, and honest travellers weren't fair game for extra cash
for breaking an arbitrary rule which has no other purpose than to get
extra cash out of people for breaking the rule. *(TfL is becoming
worse than Ryanair on this.)

I suspect that because there are many National Rail stations where it
is not possible to set an OEP they cannot enforce penalty fares from
these stations.and as this would be even more confuriog, the TOCs can
only insist on OEPs on journeys starting from TfL stations.

Just a reminder - OEPs were insisted on by the TOCs as part of the
payg extension agreement. *Penalty fares / prosecutions will be
issued / instigated by the TOCs and not TfL.

True; fair point. I was using "TfL" when I should have said "the
London setup" or something, although TfL has gone along with it.

My initial reaction to the news of OEPs was that TOCs had been forced
to accept Oyster and were determined to sabotage it by making it
unusable. That opinion hasn't changed. TfL's willingness to go along
with it will end up killing off Oyster for TfL as well. Perhaps that
suits a political agenda.