David Walters wrote:
On Jan 3, 7:09 pm, Jonathan Harris wrote:
On 3 Jan, 17:40, "Paul Scott"
wrote:



Chris wrote:
On 3 Jan, 15:52, trainmanUK wrote:
The whole reason for these OEP is that many NR stations do
not have barriers so if you get to your destination and see no
one
there you can just walk off the station with out paying
(Touching
out)

Not so....all in-zone NR stations are or will have Oyster
validators -
and it is your responsibility toi touch out. Barriers or no.

ISTM you've missed the very point of the previous post. He
explained exactly
why OEPs are needed. At unbarriered stations there is nothing
whatsoever to
stop a passenger who entered elsewhere with a season travelcard
ignoring a
validator. The TOCs aren't prepared to take that obvious revenue
risk - but
TfL do already, and are prepared to accept it.

Paul S

But ISTR that the only ungated stations on the underground are Mill
Hill East (because they don't fit) and Roding Valley (because the
number of passengers doesn't justify it).

And Finchley Central (Station Road exit, something about a gas main?)
and Woodside Park (Northbound platform only, lack of space?).

And Olympia, of course (if nobody's mentioned it)


--
Current nearest station: Bromley North

On 4 Jan, 08:55, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"asdf" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:21:03 -0800 (PST), MIG wrote:

On 3 Jan, 15:32, asdf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 03:20:19 -0800 (PST), Daniel wrote:
It seems bonkers to me too, but has it ever been suggested that NR
stations can issue OEPs?

Could there also be some cross-london journeys where travelcard
holders without the central zones on their tickets could require two
(or more) OEPs (due to the original OEP being cancelled by a gateline
en-route)? I suspect that ticket-holders with this type of ticket
could see some non-optimal charges as well.

Yes, I think that could happen. For example, the holder of a Z23
Travelcard wishes to travel from Finsbury Park (Z2) to Thornton Heath
(Z4), changing at Moorgate (Z1) and Balham (Z2). An OEP is needed from
the start of the journey, due to starting at a LU station and
travelling out-of-zone on FCC. However, this OEP is removed by the
touch-out at Balham (LU) (due to having travelled out-of-zone), so a
second OEP needs to be added in order to avoid a PF when travelling
out-of-zone (again...) to Thornton Heath on Southern.

Would it be removed at Balham though? *Balham is in the zones and the
route could have been via Finsbury Park. *It doesn't seem likely that
it would work that way based on assumed route unless you touched out
at an NR-only station in zone 1.

Hmm. If that's the case it means that if you have a Z23 Travelcard and
want to travel from Kentish Town to Herne Hill, you need an OEP for
the journey, but the OEP is not removed at the end of the journey, so
you're stuck with it and have to go out of your way to get rid of it.

Ignoring OEPs for the moment, what happened previously when people with
doughnut shaped travelcard validity made a journey that crossed the central
area?

Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge. Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd Jan...


--
Current nearest station:

Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall, where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn

On 4 Jan, 12:33, Rupert Candy wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the point
where touched. *That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North (and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall, where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn-

Is Vauxhall outside your zones?

If not, the OEP won't be unset at Vauxhall (even if you exited via NR,
but you'd be exiting via LU presumably, which should never unset the
OEP, should it?).

If so, a completely out of zone journey will start at Vauxhall NR and
not need the OEP, leaving it intact presumably (how does one tell?).

MIG wrote:
On 4 Jan, 12:33, Rupert Candy wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
MIG wrote:
Presumably it only ever registered that it was valid at the
point
where touched. That's all they seem to do elsewhere.

Just a quick live update from this morning:

- Oyster pad not yet active on ticket machine at Bromley North
(and
software not yet updated). Just as well I didn't need an OEP.

- Oyster reader by entrance had 'Out of use' sticker but gave me a
green
light and 'Enter' anyway (with a season)

- New Waterloo East gateline at the top of the stairs to Waterloo
Rd -
but main access to station still ungated!

- Touched out at new standalone readers on the Waterloo
footbridge.
Big
new overhead sign 'Card users touch here'.

So clearly not all parts of the network were quite ready for 2nd
Jan...

The experiment continues- successfully set an OEP at one of the
small
machines at Pimlico, and now on the way to Feltham via Vauxhall,
where
we'll see what happens.
--
Current nearest station: Clapham Jn-

Is Vauxhall outside your zones?

If not, the OEP won't be unset at Vauxhall (even if you exited via NR,
but you'd be exiting via LU presumably, which should never unset the
OEP, should it?).

If so, a completely out of zone journey will start at Vauxhall NR and
not need the OEP, leaving it intact presumably (how does one tell?).

Vauxhall is in my zones (1-5) and is an OOSI so presumably entering
through the NR gateline shouldn't have any effect on the OEP.

At Feltham I was deducted £1.30, which was presumably the desired
effect. Might have a look at my journey history later.
--
Current nearest station: Heathrow Central

Neil Williams wrote:

Until the station, and many
like it, are designed to make the crowd flow smoother, requiring everyone
to
touch out will be utterly unworkable.

But it *wouldn't* require everyone to touch out. Only those who have
some PAYG credit.

(I think that's a "user friendlier" way of making the differentiation
than the OEP - "you have to have the money on your card before you
start your journey if you wish to go out of zone").

How many people with season tickets can actually remember if they have any
PAYG on their card? I've sometimes gone months on end without needing PAYG
and so wouldn't know myself. And the aim of the OEP is to prevent fare
dodging by not touching out so how can they check that?

Rupert Candy wrote:

Just a quick live update from this morning:

From a short journey today:

Forest Gate - poster up telling us we can now use PAYG on national rail. No
Oyster pad has been added to the one ticket machine at the station (even
though it has a circle that is clearly intended for one) or at the ticket
office window and there were no posters or leaflets about Oyster either in
the ticket office or in the hallway down to the platforms. Absolutely
nothing whatsoever about OEPs.

(Oh and the station was closed last week for cable repairs so this is the
first operating day with PAYG.)

Stratford - continues to be chaotic because the TfL and National Express
delineation isn't always clear to Joe Public. The NX machines in the ticket
hall don't have Oyster pads so the queues for the TfL machines and window
will just get even longer. I looked hard but couldn't find any leaflet about
Oyster on National Rail on either the TfL or NX racks.

So far two stations, including one of the main ones in East London, and zero
information.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:

Just a quick live update from this morning:

From a short journey today:

Forest Gate - poster up telling us we can now use PAYG on national
rail. No
Oyster pad has been added to the one ticket machine at the station
(even
though it has a circle that is clearly intended for one) or at the
ticket
office window and there were no posters or leaflets about Oyster
either in
the ticket office or in the hallway down to the platforms. Absolutely
nothing whatsoever about OEPs.

(Oh and the station was closed last week for cable repairs so this is
the
first operating day with PAYG.)

Stratford - continues to be chaotic because the TfL and National
Express
delineation isn't always clear to Joe Public. The NX machines in the
ticket
hall don't have Oyster pads so the queues for the TfL machines and
window
will just get even longer. I looked hard but couldn't find any leaflet
about
Oyster on National Rail on either the TfL or NX racks.

So far two stations, including one of the main ones in East London,
and zero
information.

Shepherds Bush (Central) had a Using Oyster on National Rail
Tfl-produced leaflet dated 2nd Jan. It has the same wording as the
website plus a fold-out of the new Oyster Rail Services map (+ zones).
--
Current nearest station: Victoria

asdf wrote

They'd only become redundant if the stations were also staffed while
open, since the barriers would have to be left open while the station
is unstaffed, which at many stations is most or all of the time.

Depends.

Thus some stations have a CCTV equiped Help Point, where the remote
operator can release the barrier gate for you (after looking at your,
perhaps paper, ticket).

Example Walton-on-Thames (SWT, outside zones) down platform exit,
though curent practice is just to leave the barrier bypass gate open.

--
Mike D