The fact that the bus maps section of the TfL website has had a bit of
a shuffle around got an oblique mention in the "Amfibus" thread,
however the innovation which is at the root of that shuffle around
didn't specifically get flagged up.

TfL now have a new Google Maps based system on their website that can
show London bus routes overlaid on the street map - best way to
comprehend it is to check it out for yourselves he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/

I think I'm perhaps a bit of a Luddite as I've never been mad keen on
the Google Maps style - I prefer an information packed A-Z style of
mapping myself (for urban usage at least) - but getting over my
misgivings, I found this new system quite interesting. It is perhaps
a bit more complex than first meets the eye - e.g. click on a bus map
and it shows you all the buses that stop there, plus there are direct
links to take you to the journey planner system, and an option to
"Search for routes near here".

My normal modus operandi w.r.t. bus journeys in less familiar terrain
is to look at the relevant bus spider maps, at least as my jumping off
point, though I might well end up cross-referencing a street map too.
However next time I'll try and remember to give this a go when
planning a journey.

~ ~ ~

One other thought, rather going off on something of a tangent -
Google, as we know, loves collating information about users of its
services, and is a bit murky about just what it does with it and how
it uses it - though ultimately it's all about the money, in the sense
that they use the data to deliver more targeted advertising to users.
(One can of course mitigate against giving them too much info by not
surfing and searching in whilst logged into a Google account, not
using Gmail, deleting cookies etc.) What I'm thinking is that when a
website - any website, not just the TfL website - uses an embedded
Google Map, then I presume this provides Google with another
opportunity to get more detailed information that user (as the Google
Map element will access Google's cookie which provides for a unique
user ID).

I should add that whilst this might make me sounds like I have some
paranoiac fear of Google as Big Brother, I don't! (I'm posting via
Google Groups for a start!) However I do think one can have some
awareness and indeed legitimate wariness of how information you
provide on the internet can be quietly tied together so as to provide
a fuller picture about you as an individual. Anyway, point of all this
being that I'm just wondering whether TfL should be flagging up the
third party privacy issues that might arise from them Google Maps into
their website, especially on a mainstream high-trafficked 'customer
facing' part of it. And I suppose this this goes for any website that
incorporates Google Maps somehow - not just TfL.

AFAICS there's no mention of Google in the TfL website 'small print'
he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/termsandconditions/11466.aspx

Of course I might have it all wrong - though a quick test shows
visiting the above TfL bus map page does place a Google cookie (in
addition to to a TfL cookie) in a browser's cache.

Additionally one might well think this doesn't matter and isn't an
issue, which is fair enough - I kinda half wonder whether it's really
something that's worth being bothered about too!

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:54:36 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:



I should add that whilst this might make me sounds like I have some
paranoiac fear of Google as Big Brother, I don't! (I'm posting via
Google Groups for a start!) However I do think one can have some
awareness and indeed legitimate wariness of how information you
provide on the internet can be quietly tied together so as to provide
a fuller picture about you as an individual. Anyway, point of all this
being that I'm just wondering whether TfL should be flagging up the
third party privacy issues that might arise from them Google Maps into
their website, especially on a mainstream high-trafficked 'customer
facing' part of it. And I suppose this this goes for any website that
incorporates Google Maps somehow - not just TfL.

AFAICS there's no mention of Google in the TfL website 'small print'
he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/termsandconditions/11466.aspx

Of course I might have it all wrong - though a quick test shows
visiting the above TfL bus map page does place a Google cookie (in
addition to to a TfL cookie) in a browser's cache.

Additionally one might well think this doesn't matter and isn't an
issue, which is fair enough - I kinda half wonder whether it's really
something that's worth being bothered about too!


I noticed this. I find it completly useless and I've emailed tfl and
told them what I think of it.
Unless I'm missing something if you want to go from A to B which
involves a change of buses, the maps only show one route. If you enter
the A and B details, then it finds routes using NR and underground.


Still waiting for a reply!

Dave

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...
The fact that the bus maps section of the TfL website has had a bit of
a shuffle around got an oblique mention in the "Amfibus" thread,
however the innovation which is at the root of that shuffle around
didn't specifically get flagged up.

TfL now have a new Google Maps based system on their website that can
show London bus routes overlaid on the street map - best way to
comprehend it is to check it out for yourselves he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaround/maps/buses/

Thanks for that. I tried W4 3HA as a post code I used to live at and it
duly showed me the local day routes but only one by one. But when I
switched to the night tab; nothing. I tried zooming out so I could see
Turnham Green (where the night buses go), still nothing. I tried the
"routes nearby" and still nothing for night but when I switched to day it
offered R68 which is the other side of the river and since the post code is
about half way between Chiswick and Kew Bridges the R68 would be a bit of a
hike for many people. Their definition of "nearby" would, I suggest, need
to change day/night and take into account obstacles like the Thames. I
think I'd also like to be able to see all of the local routes on the map,
not just one at a time although I accept it could get crowded in some
places. I like the Nextbus implementation for San Francisco.

On Feb 11, 5:37*pm, "Graham Harrison"
wrote:
I like the Nextbus implementation for San Francisco.

I like the semi-diagrammatic maps with route colours that are common
in the regions. London is big and complicated, of course, but
something like that would still be possible, if expensive.

The biggest downside of the Google implementation is that it only
shows one route, though. Why not several at once?

Neil

On 11 Feb, 19:28, Neil Williams wrote:
On Feb 11, 5:37*pm, "Graham Harrison"

wrote:
I like the Nextbus implementation for San Francisco.

I like the semi-diagrammatic maps with route colours that are common
in the regions. *London is big and complicated, of course, but
something like that would still be possible, if expensive.

The biggest downside of the Google implementation is that it only
shows one route, though. *Why not several at once?

Neil

I didn't realise during this discussion that these Google maps are ALL
there is. So there is no way of seeing a map of an area showing where
the buses go.

Spider maps are not much use for this, and don't show routes that
start just down the road from your chosen location.

Totally f*cking useless. Appalling. Words fail me. Not in all the
days since the NRE site was "improved" have I seen technology so
hopeless and obviously untested.

I wanted to check on all the routes that go roughly between two
places. I can't. I have to specify a route, which I obviously don't
know or I wouldn't be looking for a map, and I can only see one route
at a time. And why does it select a route at random to show when you
specify a location?

Does this mean that the paper maps, of which one used to be able to
view a PDF, will no longer be issued either?

Oh, and the mould on the turd is that the labelling seems to be
wrong. I put in SE18. It gave me a map with an arrow pointing at the
centre of Woolwich, which was labelled as Eltham.

On 24 Feb, 22:45, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:01:04 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
I didn't realise during this discussion that these Google maps are ALL
there is. *So there is no way of seeing a map of an area showing where
the buses go.

Not correct. The quadrant and central London maps still exist and are on
the site.

Use this link

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...usdiagrams.asp

Ah, thanks. Well, I certainly failed to find it in the time I had to
search. It led me so determinedly to the search box.

I have finally found out how to navigate to the page you've linked
here. You have to click on "spider maps" from the page you go to when
you click on maps, bus from the home page. ie
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/gettingaro...s/default.aspx.

Something not linked (or wrongly linked) might as well not be there
really.


and area maps are at the bottom. *There is also a "other maps" link at
the very bottom of the Google-ised page. It's far too easy to miss in my
view and the choice to the pdf maps needs to stand equally beside the
Google menu box.

Spider maps are not much use for this, and don't show routes that
start just down the road from your chosen location.

True but the old maps are still available.

Totally f*cking useless. *Appalling. *Words fail me. *Not in all the
days since the NRE site was "improved" have I seen technology so
hopeless and obviously untested.

I don't agree at all that it approaches the disaster that was and is the
NRE site. *The navigation is poor to all of the available maps and there
are other issues - see below.

I wanted to check on all the routes that go roughly between two
places. *I can't. *I have to specify a route, which I obviously don't
know or I wouldn't be looking for a map, and I can only see one route
at a time. *And why does it select a route at random to show when you
specify a location?

Yes you can - see above

Does this mean that the paper maps, of which one used to be able to
view a PDF, will no longer be issued either?

No it doesn't - see above.

I picked up paper copies of the Jan 2010 editions - barring the North
East London version - at Victoria Bus Station today. *They are in a pile
a few centremetres away from the keyboard I am typing on.

Oh, and the mould on the turd is that the labelling seems to be
wrong. *I put in SE18. *It gave me a map with an arrow pointing at the
centre of Woolwich, which was labelled as Eltham.

Well I managed to get it to go spectacularly wrong earlier. I typed in
462 and it sent me to an address on the 216 route in Surrey. At the
second attempt it brought up route 462 which is what I wanted.

When it first launched a number of timetables did not work for
particular services. That seems to have eased in recent days.

It still does not recognise Leytonstone tube station - a recognised
terminal point for several routes as well as being served by several
through services. Now Leytonstone tube is actually hard to get right
given stops either side of the rail tracks but nonetheless it should be
able to cope.

Quality rant though!

But when the rant is fully justified, my always eloquence deserts me.
When something suitably slagworthy comes up, please remember this one.