Hello,

I'm after two bits of advice, if anyone can help.

I'm travelling out to Grays during the strike next week. Assuming it all
goes ahead, there's nothing running via Grays at all. The best way I can
work out is train to Upminster, then the 370 bus to Lakeside, then
Ensignbus to Grays. Is that best or is there something else I haven't
thought of?

Separately, I'm going *from* Grays into London on a non-strike day (a
weekend, actually, so no peak restrictions?). I'll be travelling in by
train, then doing a few tubes and buses (no more NR/Overground after I
get to Fenchurch St) in Z1 or Z1-2 but probably not enough to reach a
cap. I've got a 16-25 railcard and the discount on Oyster. Is it cheaper
to get a paper travelcard or PAYG, and if the latter then how soon can I
expect to hit a cap?

Thanks for any help - I normally keep on top of the cheapest tickets,
but Oyster on NR has just confused me so far...!

Josie
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"Josie" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm after two bits of advice, if anyone can help.

I'm travelling out to Grays during the strike next week. Assuming it all
goes ahead, there's nothing running via Grays at all. The best way I can
work out is train to Upminster, then the 370 bus to Lakeside, then
Ensignbus to Grays. Is that best or is there something else I haven't
thought of?

How about Gravesend, ferry and then bus from tilbury?

tim

On 31/03/2010 20:05, Paul Corfield wrote:
There are one or two very obscure routes which are *not* TfL services
that skirt their way to / from Lakeside as shopper routes which might be
worth knowing about as contingency measures.

Thanks - I'll bear those in mind, though I suspect it will just be a
matter of arriving as far from either peak as possible and hoping for
the best!

If you are using PAYG from Grays (remember it is valid on C2C) then the
off peak railcard cap is £9.40 for Z1-6 plus Grays. Your PAYG fare
from grays to Z1 will be £3.90 (with discount) - you've therefore got to
make up £5.50 worth of TfL travel to hit the cap. Only you can assess
if you're likely to do that.

I think what I was trying to work out was whether Oyster would be clever
enough to treat the rail journey as separate - if all my journeys are Z1
apart from that first journey from Grays to Fenchurch St, would it
charge me the Z1 cap plus the £3.90 fare in? Or would it keep going for
the Z1-Grays cap?
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On 01/04/2010 18:33, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 02:36:59 +0100,
wrote:

I think what I was trying to work out was whether Oyster would be clever
enough to treat the rail journey as separate - if all my journeys are Z1
apart from that first journey from Grays to Fenchurch St, would it
charge me the Z1 cap plus the £3.90 fare in? Or would it keep going for
the Z1-Grays cap?

I doubt it but I'm not 100% certain. Journeys are typically held
separate if they are in a different time band (e.g. peak) or where you
have a lower cap (e.g. bus pass) and say only one tube journey which is
less than the equivalent ODTC cap. Having looked at the numbers there
is a big difference in price between the Z16G cap and the Z12 cap plus
£3.90. I suppose if Oyster is supposed to give you the lowest price
then assuming you touch in and out correctly then you should only be
charged £7.60 (£3.90 +£3.70) rather than £9.40.

Theoretically, if someone reached the Z12 cap *before* making a single
journey further afield, and then returned to Z1 under their own steam
and made more journeys in the centre of town, they should reasonably
expect not to pay any more... it's an interesting one. I can spare a
couple of quid, I'll try it and see what happens! Thanks for your help.
--
Josie
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"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 02:36:59 +0100, Josie

wrote:

I think what I was trying to work out was whether Oyster would be
clever
enough to treat the rail journey as separate - if all my journeys are
Z1
apart from that first journey from Grays to Fenchurch St, would it
charge me the Z1 cap plus the £3.90 fare in? Or would it keep going
for
the Z1-Grays cap?

I doubt it but I'm not 100% certain. Journeys are typically held
separate if they are in a different time band (e.g. peak) or where you
have a lower cap (e.g. bus pass) and say only one tube journey which
is
less than the equivalent ODTC cap. Having looked at the numbers there
is a big difference in price between the Z16G cap and the Z12 cap plus
£3.90. I suppose if Oyster is supposed to give you the lowest price
then assuming you touch in and out correctly then you should only be
charged £7.60 (£3.90 +£3.70) rather than £9.40.

Just to confuse things even more you could argue the cheapest fare
should be a Z12 cap plus a Z2-Grays single. I don't know if the c2c
trains stop at Limehouse long enough to jump off, touch out and in
again, and get back on the train!

Peter Smyth

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:05:25 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:16:28 +0100, Josie
wrote:

Hello,

I'm after two bits of advice, if anyone can help.

I'm travelling out to Grays during the strike next week. Assuming it all
goes ahead, there's nothing running via Grays at all. The best way I can
work out is train to Upminster, then the 370 bus to Lakeside, then
Ensignbus to Grays. Is that best or is there something else I haven't
thought of?

The only other option is the 372 bus which starts from Hornchurch and
runs past Elm Park to Lakeside. You change there for Ensignbus local
services.

Be warned that the 370 and 372 are ordinarily pretty busy and I dread to
think what they'll be like on a C2C strike day.

There is a rather infrequent 347 from Romford and Upminster to Ockendon
Station but my knowledge of Ensign's routes is not good enough to say
whether they run on from Ockendon Station to Grays.

There are one or two very obscure routes which are *not* TfL services
that skirt their way to / from Lakeside as shopper routes which might be
worth knowing about as contingency measures.

One is the First Bus 265 which runs from Brentwood to Lakeside.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/lond.../265/index.php

There is also a 269 from Brentwood to Grays.

http://www.busmap.org/tt4/269C.pdf

The TfL run 498 bus runs from Brentwood back in to Romford from where
there are other bus routes.

The other is Blue Triangle's 575 which also runs from Lakeside to
Romford and then on to Epping.

http://www.go-ahead-london.com/bus-s.../route575.html

These are probably both "long ways round for a short cut" but if other
routes are jam packed full they're worth having in reserve even if you
have to pay separately for them.

There are no longer any coaches that I could find that might serve Grays
/ Thurrock while running from Southend into London.

Separately, I'm going *from* Grays into London on a non-strike day (a
weekend, actually, so no peak restrictions?). I'll be travelling in by
train, then doing a few tubes and buses (no more NR/Overground after I
get to Fenchurch St) in Z1 or Z1-2 but probably not enough to reach a
cap. I've got a 16-25 railcard and the discount on Oyster. Is it cheaper
to get a paper travelcard or PAYG, and if the latter then how soon can I
expect to hit a cap?

If you are using PAYG from Grays (remember it is valid on C2C) then the
off peak railcard cap is £9.40 for Z1-6 plus Grays. Your PAYG fare
from grays to Z1 will be £3.90 (with discount) - you've therefore got to
make up £5.50 worth of TfL travel to hit the cap. Only you can assess
if you're likely to do that.

HTH


Ensign do produce a good quality time-table book. c/w a route map
which is available from the travel office at Lakeside Bus Station &
also from racks on-board their buses.

www.ensignbus.com might be useul too.......

DC

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:05:25 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:16:28 +0100, Josie
wrote:

Hello,

I'm after two bits of advice, if anyone can help.

I'm travelling out to Grays during the strike next week. Assuming it all
goes ahead, there's nothing running via Grays at all. The best way I can
work out is train to Upminster, then the 370 bus to Lakeside, then
Ensignbus to Grays. Is that best or is there something else I haven't
thought of?

The only other option is the 372 bus which starts from Hornchurch and
runs past Elm Park to Lakeside. You change there for Ensignbus local
services.

Be warned that the 370 and 372 are ordinarily pretty busy and I dread to
think what they'll be like on a C2C strike day.

There is a rather infrequent 347 from Romford and Upminster to Ockendon
Station but my knowledge of Ensign's routes is not good enough to say
whether they run on from Ockendon Station to Grays.

There are one or two very obscure routes which are *not* TfL services
that skirt their way to / from Lakeside as shopper routes which might be
worth knowing about as contingency measures.

One is the First Bus 265 which runs from Brentwood to Lakeside.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/lond.../265/index.php

There is also a 269 from Brentwood to Grays.

http://www.busmap.org/tt4/269C.pdf

The TfL run 498 bus runs from Brentwood back in to Romford from where
there are other bus routes.

The other is Blue Triangle's 575 which also runs from Lakeside to
Romford and then on to Epping.

http://www.go-ahead-london.com/bus-s.../route575.html

These are probably both "long ways round for a short cut" but if other
routes are jam packed full they're worth having in reserve even if you
have to pay separately for them.

There are no longer any coaches that I could find that might serve Grays
/ Thurrock while running from Southend into London.

Separately, I'm going *from* Grays into London on a non-strike day (a
weekend, actually, so no peak restrictions?). I'll be travelling in by
train, then doing a few tubes and buses (no more NR/Overground after I
get to Fenchurch St) in Z1 or Z1-2 but probably not enough to reach a
cap. I've got a 16-25 railcard and the discount on Oyster. Is it cheaper
to get a paper travelcard or PAYG, and if the latter then how soon can I
expect to hit a cap?

If you are using PAYG from Grays (remember it is valid on C2C) then the
off peak railcard cap is £9.40 for Z1-6 plus Grays. Your PAYG fare
from grays to Z1 will be £3.90 (with discount) - you've therefore got to
make up £5.50 worth of TfL travel to hit the cap. Only you can assess
if you're likely to do that.

HTH

I live in Thurrock & use the Grays area stations, & I always purchase
a one-day paper trvelcard.
There are oyster readers & PAYG Oyster is now valid out to Grays, but,
said Oyster Card cannot be topped up at the local stations!

So, it's paper only........

I do have an unused (free) Oystercard & I'can't see why I'd ever
bother to use it, since all my trips start from Thurrock, or
Upminster, & a paper travelcard offers the same advantages to me as an
Oyster.
(Sarting from Upminster has cost benifents, I'm old enough to have an
ENOC bus-pass & I purchase a senior railcard every year, so a weekday
Zones 1-6 off-peak travel card costs me £5 at Upminster or £8.87 at
Grays!).
It's cheaper for me to by a day-return to Upminster than a travel card
from Grays.....

If I know I'm coming home late from London, I'll drive to Lakeside &
use their free parking rather than risk a long wait at Lakeside for
the last bus home, but at least the 370 from Romford / Upminster runs
quite late at night, probably 'cos the buses are garaged in Grays &
need to get home for the night themselves.
This years fare changes saw some significant increases in weekday &
weekend travel card prices from Thurrock area stations!

As for bus travel into Grays from Lakeside bus station, during the
working day there are many options.

Ensignbus provide 3 bph on route 22, 1 bph on route 33, 2 bph on
route 44, 2 bph on route 66, & 3 bph on both routes 73 & 83.
So 12 buses per hour, some via the more "scenic" routes....

Add to that First Essex provie 3 bph on route 100 & 2 bph on route
200, & Arriva offer 1 bph on their route 5, (to Southend...)

I guess that 18 bph is quite reasonable, but I'm sure that the fares
all differ & a few of the trips take a little too long 'cos they do
follow routes more suitable for local passengers.

I'm also sure that there are no longer any A13 routed commuter coaches
into London, but then our local railway can no longer be regarded as
the "misery line", & the reasons for offering alternative coach
service have dissappeared.

There is a useful but under utilized coach service into Grays from
Stansted Airport, the X3, operated by Excel Passenger Logistics.
since it has scheduled stops in Basildon, Brentwood & Ongar it seems
to be treated as a bus service & ENOC passes are usable.
It runs every two hours, with some gaps in the late evening / early
morning, but since it interlines with the X5 to Ipswich at Stansted,
punctuality is not quite perfect........


DC

On 02/04/2010 12:13, wrote:
I do have an unused (free) Oystercard& I'can't see why I'd ever
bother to use it, since all my trips start from Thurrock, or
Upminster,& a paper travelcard offers the same advantages to me as an
Oyster.
(Sarting from Upminster has cost benifents, I'm old enough to have an
ENOC bus-pass& I purchase a senior railcard every year, so a weekday
Zones 1-6 off-peak travel card costs me £5 at Upminster or £8.87 at
Grays!).
It's cheaper for me to by a day-return to Upminster than a travel card
from Grays.....

So it is, I hadn't realised that - on the other hand, it does restrict
you to travel back via Upminster and not via Rainham, doesn't it? Since
I'll not going back the same day that issue doesn't arise, so that's a
useful tip to know.

As for bus travel into Grays from Lakeside bus station, during the
working day there are many options.

Ensignbus provide 3 bph on route 22, 1 bph on route 33, 2 bph on
route 44, 2 bph on route 66,& 3 bph on both routes 73& 83.
So 12 buses per hour, some via the more "scenic" routes....

Add to that First Essex provie 3 bph on route 100& 2 bph on route
200,& Arriva offer 1 bph on their route 5, (to Southend...)

I guess that 18 bph is quite reasonable, but I'm sure that the fares
all differ& a few of the trips take a little too long 'cos they do
follow routes more suitable for local passengers.

I'm actually one of those local passengers going to somewhere on one of
the scenic routes, so that cuts my options down a bit, but I've got one
of the very good timetable booklets recommended elsewhere in this thread!

--
Josie
Reverse 'liar' to e-mail me.

On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 13:17:38 +0100, Josie
wrote:

On 02/04/2010 12:13, wrote:
I do have an unused (free) Oystercard& I'can't see why I'd ever
bother to use it, since all my trips start from Thurrock, or
Upminster,& a paper travelcard offers the same advantages to me as an
Oyster.
(Sarting from Upminster has cost benifents, I'm old enough to have an
ENOC bus-pass& I purchase a senior railcard every year, so a weekday
Zones 1-6 off-peak travel card costs me £5 at Upminster or £8.87 at
Grays!).
It's cheaper for me to by a day-return to Upminster than a travel card
from Grays.....

So it is, I hadn't realised that - on the other hand, it does restrict
you to travel back via Upminster and not via Rainham, doesn't it? Since
I'll not going back the same day that issue doesn't arise, so that's a
useful tip to know.

True, but if you use the 370 bus from Lakeside to get to Upminster for
the cheapest possible travelcard, you can always return to Rainham &
use the 372 back to Lakeside. Your 1-day travelcard is valid on both
route all the way to Lakeside, which suprised me, 'cos you are
definately outside the original zone boundaries there.

I appreciate that I'm penny pinching here, but I'm old & poor........

As for bus travel into Grays from Lakeside bus station, during the
working day there are many options.

Ensignbus provide 3 bph on route 22, 1 bph on route 33, 2 bph on
route 44, 2 bph on route 66,& 3 bph on both routes 73& 83.
So 12 buses per hour, some via the more "scenic" routes....

Add to that First Essex provie 3 bph on route 100& 2 bph on route
200,& Arriva offer 1 bph on their route 5, (to Southend...)

I guess that 18 bph is quite reasonable, but I'm sure that the fares
all differ& a few of the trips take a little too long 'cos they do
follow routes more suitable for local passengers.

I'm actually one of those local passengers going to somewhere on one of
the scenic routes, so that cuts my options down a bit, but I've got one
of the very good timetable booklets recommended elsewhere in this thread!

Ensign continues to surprise me too, it's obviously a commercial
operation, & I think with very little local authority support, but
it's providing services in the evenings & weekends that Arriva gave up
on.
I suppose that since they are bus dealers, they do have access to
decent quility 2/hand vehicles as well as their new d/deckers, & that
must help, but the crews are good , happy to wait for passengers at
stops & polite with it. Very un 21st century! If they could find an
economical way to do away with cash fares, they could even save a
little time too.


DC

On 02/04/2010 15:19, wrote:
So it is, I hadn't realised that - on the other hand, it does restrict
you to travel back via Upminster and not via Rainham, doesn't it? Since
I'll not going back the same day that issue doesn't arise, so that's a
useful tip to know.

True, but if you use the 370 bus from Lakeside to get to Upminster for
the cheapest possible travelcard, you can always return to Rainham&
use the 372 back to Lakeside. Your 1-day travelcard is valid on both
route all the way to Lakeside, which suprised me, 'cos you are
definately outside the original zone boundaries there.

I appreciate that I'm penny pinching here, but I'm old& poor........

Oh, I see. That works, but seeing as I'm travelling beyond Grays by bus
when I get there, I can't really be doing with another bus to get into
Grays first - I'd rather pay the extra to stay on the train.

Ensign continues to surprise me too, it's obviously a commercial
operation,& I think with very little local authority support, but
it's providing services in the evenings& weekends that Arriva gave up
on.
I suppose that since they are bus dealers, they do have access to
decent quility 2/hand vehicles as well as their new d/deckers,& that
must help, but the crews are good , happy to wait for passengers at
stops& polite with it. Very un 21st century! If they could find an
economical way to do away with cash fares, they could even save a
little time too.

Likewise; for a relatively small local operator they do very well, and
have some very nice buses. They throw up occasional surprises as well
though - I was on a bus to Tilbury once which had worked for LRT in the
past, with two sets of doors and some old signage still inside!

--
Josie
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