On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Well you learn something new everyday. I do find that a very odd ruling
in the way singles and returns are OK but LT cards are not. Must be
something to do with the apportionment process or somesuch.

Presumably the single/return would be an NR ticket at the NR fare and
not a LUL one.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:14:40 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , David Walters
writes
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:03:37 +0000, Kat wrote:
Can you no longer buy single tickets with the credit on your Oystercard?

I wonder why you say "no longer"
AFAIK you've never been able to in the past and won't be able to until
January 04 even if you've loaded money into the Prepay slot of a 7 Day
T/C or Season Ticket on Oyster.

I've done it several dozen times with a monthly oyster and it seems
you can still do so (having had a look this evening). For me it's
a lot less hassle than having lots of small credit card transactions
or carrying change.

I can only think that you must be using one of the stations that may be
testing out the system at present. It's certainly not working like that
at my station; I've had a few disgruntled customers wondering why
they've put money on their Prepay and can't use it yet.

Hi,

Have a look at next week's TC. No capping to start with

"staff will bear the brunt..."
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:31:49 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Well you learn something new everyday. I do find that a very odd ruling
in the way singles and returns are OK but LT cards are not. Must be
something to do with the apportionment process or somesuch.

Presumably the single/return would be an NR ticket at the NR fare and
not a LUL one.

No - that's the whole point of interavailability - the fare will be the
cheapest one - i.e. LUL. It removes the anomaly of there being two fares
for the same trip. The ticket may be issued on NR stock though - as LUL
trips are from the WAGN ticket office at Walthamstow.

Under the old fares the WAGN fare was considerably more than the LUL one
to Walthamstow. If you just lowered the fare to Walthamstow then it
would almost certainly be the case that St James St, Clapton and
probably Hackney Downs fares would be higher than WWCS and for a shorter
distance. The other knock on is that fares to Chingford may also have
fallen because you would get a big step change in the fare scale if you
had LUL fares to WWCS and then old WAGN scale beyond it.

While I am pleased that WAGN have aligned their fares I would be
interested to see what deal has been done to finance it because it took
years to get Silverlink to agree to a zonal fare basis north of Queens
Park as far as Kenton. I expect that Harrow and Wealdstone hasn't been
aligned because other trains stop there and you would have a ripple
effect all the way up the West Coast line for Silverlink fares. It may
also be a priced station for fare summation purposes and if it was "too
cheap" it would also cause a loss of revenue for Silverlink.
--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 18:24:01 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 15:40:42 +0000, Jason wrote:
I'd like to know what's going to happen when using WAGN services.
Certain Underground tickets can be used between Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale and Walthamstow Central and the intermediate statins.

Well given the above info re the validity then equipment should be being
installed at Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney
Downs, Clapton, St James St, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington and Stamford
Hill stations. That's quite an undertaking in such a short time.

It now appears people using the non-Undergound interchange
"intermediate stations" on the WAGN lines to Walthamstow, Tottenham
Hale and Seven Sisters will pay more when using single tickets:

http://www.transportforlondon.gov.uk...2004-fares.pdf
PDF page 11 / Booklet page 23

"Inter-availability of tickets and Pre Pay on
National Rail services

Liverpool Street to Walthamstow Central/
Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (Pre Pay only:
not at intermediate stations)"

Therefore a single from Walthamstow Central to Zone 1 via WAGN or the
Victoria line is £2.30 using Oyster Pre-pay. For those at a zone 3
station who can't use Oyster (National Rail only) it will be £2.50.

This will get worse on the weekend:
Walthamstow Central Pre-Pay Z1-3 £1.80 single / £3.60 return.
National Rail Z1-3 £2.50 single / £5.00 return. (Although an off-peak
TC @ £4.70 is cheaper)

Utter madness - and willl certainly lead to even higher levels of fare
evasion on National Rail services.


Cheers,

Jason.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:21:01 +0000, Jason wrote:

[Oyster Pre-Pay *not* available at intermediate WAGN stations between
Liverpool Street and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central]

Utter madness - and willl certainly lead to even higher levels of fare
evasion on National Rail services.

Somehow I don't think anyone would really notice, at least not for
intermediate journeys. Okay, there's barriers at Liverpool Street (when
they're in operation), but it's pretty rare for WAGN to do station
blocks elsewhere on the West Anglia side, other than during the peaks,
and even rarer to see Revenue Protection staff on board trains.

A complete contrast to the Great Northern side, where they regularly
have ticket checks at stations in the morning peak (at least stations
from Palmers Green to Harringay [inclusive] on the Hertford Loop), with
random checks on board trains at other times.

Cya,

Barry

--
Barry Salter, barry at southie dot me dot uk
Read uk.* newsgroups? Read uk.net.news.announce!

DISCLAIMER: The above comments do not necessarily represent the
views of my employers.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 21:42:17 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:21:01 +0000, Jason wrote:
[Oyster Pre-Pay *not* available at intermediate WAGN stations between
Liverpool Street and Seven Sisters/Tottenham Hale/Walthamstow Central]
Utter madness - and willl certainly lead to even higher levels of fare
evasion on National Rail services.

Somehow I don't think anyone would really notice, at least not for
intermediate journeys. Okay, there's barriers at Liverpool Street (when
they're in operation),

Personally, I have no desire to evade paying the fare - but I do
resent being forced to pay MORE for a SHORTER journey!

Example: a journey from zone 1 via Liverpool Street to Seven Sisters,
Tottenham Hale, or Walthamstow Central will be £2.30 with Oyster, but
a journey to Stamford HIll or St James Street - both in zone 3 - will
be £2.50

but it's pretty rare for WAGN to do station
blocks elsewhere on the West Anglia side, other than during the peaks,
and even rarer to see Revenue Protection staff on board trains.

It's not about the prospect of getting caught for me, it's about how
unworkable the system is for National Rail where inter-availability
used to exist - and will thanks to Oyster Pre-Pay will disappear .

The fact is that an Oyster Prepay will record a Zone 1-6 journey for
passengers to Stamford HIll or St James Street (to use the same
example) as the journey can't be "ended" at these stations.

This is essentially creating a two-tier system for non-Season ticket
holders: i) those that use the Underground and ii) those that use
National Rail where tickets WERE previously inter-available. For
former gets 2003 prices , and the later gets lumped with a fare
increase.

I don't know who to blame Red Ken and TfL or the ATOC/WAGN, but I'm
not happy!


Cheers,

Jason.