On Nov 30, 10:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:14:37 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Although there is mention of general delays, there seems to be a total
lack of any Metrobus buses in service down ower way (Orpington and
Croydon garages I spose).

Apparently Metrobus are saying they've pulled all their buses off the
road. *TfL's details on the real time site indicate otherwise - just
partial suspensions on some routes.

TfL are reporting most of Epsom Buses' routes are not working.

I didn't see a single one in quite a while of trudging through snow,
watching huge crowds at stops etc. *London Central and Selkent running
apparently fairly normally.

And this matches the lack of negative info on the TfL site. One has to
wonder why Metrobus are struggling so badly when other routes seem to be
still running.
--
Paul C

The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit. It took me over
an hour longer than usual to get from Coulsdon to Croydon this
morning. Traffic was very slow, but at least it kept moving. As I
was waiting to cross the road in Croydon having got off the bus at
about 10:15, a snowplough passed me, something you seldom see in these
parts, but neither the main road, nor the side streets I used seem to
have had any salt or grit applied. Whether this was the reason for
the disruption being worse than last year, with only a small amount of
snow at that time, I don't know.

At lunchtime it was announced that the building would close at 14:00,
but at 13:45 I was asked to leave. I walked down to the bus stop in
Park Street just before where Turtles used to be. After about 10-15
minutes a 60 arrived, going only to Coulsdon, not continuing up the
hill to Old Coulsdon, but this is normal during snow. I didn't see
any 405s running.

I got on, but we only moved by about a bus length every ten minutes or
so, and after nearly an hour we hadn't quite reached the end of the
road, opposite Grants, there was still another bus in front of us.
The traffic on the main road didn't seem to be moving at all at that
point, and the driver announced that all route 60 buses would be
terminating at South Croydon Garage. I'm not sure whether he meant
that the service was being suspended, or that the buses would return
North, but neither was any use to me, so I got off. While at work I
had checked the TfL website; route 60 was shown as having no
disruption or not being a valid route. It was the same when I checked
while on the bus.

I walked back up Park Street, taking little more than ten seconds to
pass the stop where I'd got on almost an hour earlier. I walked to
East Croydon station, and there was a train shown to Coulsdon South in
a few minutes from platform 6, but no train arrived, unless it had
left by the time I reached the platform; I don't think this was the
case as there was snow on the rails. Most services were heavily
delayed, which is not surprising as the weather was pretty bad by this
time. A Tattenham Corner train was shown as being due at 15:07, but
running 12 minutes late. That time kept being put back, as did that
for just about all other trains, quite often showing a time which had
already passed by several minutes. They then started announcing that
the train was just outside the station waiting for clearance to run
into the platform, but nothing arrived, and by this time the indicator
on the platform simply showed the train as 'delayed'. A Caterham
train which was due to leave from platform 6 was changed to 5, and
eventually our Tattenham Corner train was announced as being changed
to platform 4. A large number of people went to the subway, and I
didn't think I'd get on, but did manage to. The train still didn't
leave for several more minutes, but eventually departed 58 minutes
late.

We ran very slowly, with very severe arcing both from our train and
from others. Up trains seemed to be running faster than down ones.

When we reached Reedham I could see that the up track was completely
buried in snow, to above the heads of the running rails, so no up
trains seemed to be running on this line by that time. As we left
Reedham the arcing became even more severe, and the train had
difficulty moving. I wished I'd got off at Reedham before the doors
closed, but the train did eventually reach Smitham. I don't know if
it managed to reach the end of the line.

When I reached Coulsdon the traffic was stationary on the main road,
so no chance of a gritter getting through. It had taken me about
three hours to get home from Croydon.

The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning, and I'm not surprised at the delays, but I think the
information could, and should, have been better, both for the buses
and the trains.

The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.
...
The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning

Although we seem to have had five or six inches of snow build up over the
day, rather that the possible 1-2cm that was being forecast on Monday
evening, I wouldn't say the Croydon area has been particularly badly hit
weather wise. It has just snowed. It is not like a couple of years ago
when we woke up to nearly a foot of the stuff. The pavements which had a
lovely layer of fresh snow this morning have got a little more treacherous
in the afternoon as the snow has been trodden down but the roads don't seem
so much worse than they were first thing.

The trouble with Croydon is that it takes very little to gum up the works.
The main roads are very busy at peak periods at the best of times, and a
single closure or diversion on a major road can have a knock on effect a
couple miles away (e.g. the closure of Coombe Road for a few days a while
back was clearly reflected in the level and speed of traffic on the Lower
Addiscombe Road). So even the most modest amount of snow has a major effect.
Once the roads are bunged up the bus network, which is pretty good normally,
is of course stuffed. Similarly there is an impressive rail service in
Croydon when all is going smoothly, but it is at capacity and it takes very
little to reduce it to chaos.

On 1 Dec, 00:08, "Graham J" wrote:
The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.
...
The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning

Although we seem to have had five or six inches of snow build up over the
day, rather that the possible 1-2cm that was being forecast on Monday
evening, I wouldn't say the Croydon area has been particularly badly hit
weather wise. *It has just snowed. *It is not like a couple of years ago
when we woke up to nearly a foot of the stuff. *The pavements which had a
lovely layer of fresh snow this morning have got a little more treacherous
in the afternoon as the snow has been trodden down but the roads don't seem
so much worse than they were first thing.

The trouble with Croydon is that it takes very little to gum up the works..
The main roads are very busy at peak periods at the best of times, and a
single closure or diversion on a major road can have a knock on effect a
couple miles away (e.g. the closure of Coombe Road for a few days a while
back was clearly reflected in the level and speed of traffic on the Lower
Addiscombe Road). So even the most modest amount of snow has a major effect.
Once the roads are bunged up the bus network, which is pretty good normally,
is of course stuffed. *Similarly there is an impressive rail service in
Croydon when all is going smoothly, but it is at capacity and it takes very
little to reduce it to chaos.

Croydon has been very bad although the trams kept going.

There were unconfirmed reports of a bus on route 412 having overturned
on Mitchley Hill, anybody know anything about this?

On Dec 1, 12:08*am, "Graham J" wrote:
The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit.
...
The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning

Although we seem to have had five or six inches of snow build up over the
day, rather that the possible 1-2cm that was being forecast on Monday
evening, I wouldn't say the Croydon area has been particularly badly hit
weather wise. *It has just snowed. *It is not like a couple of years ago
when we woke up to nearly a foot of the stuff. *The pavements which had a
lovely layer of fresh snow this morning have got a little more treacherous
in the afternoon as the snow has been trodden down but the roads don't seem
so much worse than they were first thing.

When I wrote 'badly hit' I was referring more to the disruption than
to the weather conditions themselves, at least until about 15:00 when
I arrived at East Croydon station. After that it got quite nasty,
with a lot of snowing around in the air, falling temperature and very
poor visibility; certainly not good conditions to be driving on the
roads.

The trouble with Croydon is that it takes very little to gum up the works..
The main roads are very busy at peak periods at the best of times, and a
single closure or diversion on a major road can have a knock on effect a
couple miles away (e.g. the closure of Coombe Road for a few days a while
back was clearly reflected in the level and speed of traffic on the Lower
Addiscombe Road). So even the most modest amount of snow has a major effect.
Once the roads are bunged up the bus network, which is pretty good normally,
is of course stuffed. *Similarly there is an impressive rail service in
Croydon when all is going smoothly, but it is at capacity and it takes very
little to reduce it to chaos.

Between about 14:00 and 15:00 the traffic on the main road was hardly
moving at all. I didn't see it after that, so I don't know how long
this situation lasted. The weather at that time was certainly less
severe in central Croydon than we have seen in the last two years.
Somebody said that it was the same all the way down the Brighton Road
to Coulsdon and Hooley; certainly nothing was moving much when I
arrived at Coulsdon. Of course, the Brighton Road would be carrying a
lot less traffic if the motorway scheme hadn't been cancelled in the
'70s when they decided that demolishing a large area of South London
wasn't a good idea. Given how narrow the Brighton Road is a few
failed or abandoned vehicles would be quite effective at totally
screwing things up, but why the disruption should have been so bad
this yesterday, when the weather was less severe than we have seen in
the last two years isn't yet clear.

but why the disruption should have been
so bad
this yesterday, when the weather was less severe than we have seen in
the last two years isn't yet clear.

I guess it could be something to do with it being unusually cold this time
around. We've had a lot worse weather in the last couple of years but not
accompanied by the freezing / sub-freezing temperatures. The snow seems a
little different this time around too. It seems very fine, dry and powdery
rather than quite big and icy. I couldn't even get a decent snowman out of
it.

G.

In article ,
Graham J wrote:
but why the disruption should have been
The snow seems a
little different this time around too. It seems very fine, dry and powdery
rather than quite big and icy. I couldn't even get a decent snowman out of
it.

Isn't that precisely the kind of snow that was the infamous "wrong
kind of snow"? ;-)

-roy

On 30 Nov, 23:12, wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:25*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:





On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:14:37 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
Although there is mention of general delays, there seems to be a total
lack of any Metrobus buses in service down ower way (Orpington and
Croydon garages I spose).

Apparently Metrobus are saying they've pulled all their buses off the
road. *TfL's details on the real time site indicate otherwise - just
partial suspensions on some routes.

TfL are reporting most of Epsom Buses' routes are not working.

I didn't see a single one in quite a while of trudging through snow,
watching huge crowds at stops etc. *London Central and Selkent running
apparently fairly normally.

And this matches the lack of negative info on the TfL site. One has to
wonder why Metrobus are struggling so badly when other routes seem to be
still running.
--
Paul C

The Croydon area seems to have been very badly hit. *It took me over
an hour longer than usual to get from Coulsdon to Croydon this
morning. *Traffic was very slow, but at least it kept moving. *As I
was waiting to cross the road in Croydon having got off the bus at
about 10:15, a snowplough passed me, something you seldom see in these
parts, but neither the main road, nor the side streets I used seem to
have had any salt or grit applied. *Whether this was the reason for
the disruption being worse than last year, with only a small amount of
snow at that time, I don't know.

At lunchtime it was announced that the building would close at 14:00,
but at 13:45 I was asked to leave. *I walked down to the bus stop in
Park Street just before where Turtles used to be. *After about 10-15
minutes a 60 arrived, going only to Coulsdon, not continuing up the
hill to Old Coulsdon, but this is normal during snow. *I didn't see
any 405s running.

I got on, but we only moved by about a bus length every ten minutes or
so, and after nearly an hour we hadn't quite reached the end of the
road, opposite Grants, there was still another bus in front of us.
The traffic on the main road didn't seem to be moving at all at that
point, and the driver announced that all route 60 buses would be
terminating at South Croydon Garage. *I'm not sure whether he meant
that the service was being suspended, or that the buses would return
North, but neither was any use to me, so I got off. *While at work I
had checked the TfL website; route 60 was shown as having no
disruption or not being a valid route. *It was the same when I checked
while on the bus.

I walked back up Park Street, taking little more than ten seconds to
pass the stop where I'd got on almost an hour earlier. *I walked to
East Croydon station, and there was a train shown to Coulsdon South in
a few minutes from platform 6, but no train arrived, unless it had
left by the time I reached the platform; I don't think this was the
case as there was snow on the rails. *Most services were heavily
delayed, which is not surprising as the weather was pretty bad by this
time. *A Tattenham Corner train was shown as being due at 15:07, but
running 12 minutes late. *That time kept being put back, as did that
for just about all other trains, quite often showing a time which had
already passed by several minutes. *They then started announcing that
the train was just outside the station waiting for clearance to run
into the platform, but nothing arrived, and by this time the indicator
on the platform simply showed the train as 'delayed'. *A Caterham
train which was due to leave from platform 6 was changed to 5, and
eventually our Tattenham Corner train was announced as being changed
to platform 4. *A large number of people went to the subway, and I
didn't think I'd get on, but did manage to. *The train still didn't
leave for several more minutes, but eventually departed 58 minutes
late.

We ran very slowly, with very severe arcing both from our train and
from others. *Up trains seemed to be running faster than down ones.

When we reached Reedham I could see that the up track was completely
buried in snow, to above the heads of the running rails, so no up
trains seemed to be running on this line by that time. *As we left
Reedham the arcing became even more severe, and the train had
difficulty moving. *I wished I'd got off at Reedham before the doors
closed, but the train did eventually reach Smitham. *I don't know if
it managed to reach the end of the line.

When I reached Coulsdon the traffic was stationary on the main road,
so no chance of a gritter getting through. *It had taken me about
three hours to get home from Croydon.

The weather in the afternoon was much worse than it had been in the
morning, and I'm not surprised at the delays, but I think the
information could, and should, have been better, both for the buses
and the trains.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a report elsewhere of a train being advertised at East
Croydon as all stations to Three Bridges but after stopping at South
Croydon it run fast to Horley, great!!

There were passengers stranded on a train near Purley and passengers
have been stuck on a train near Orpington all night!

It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange how these
snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

B2003

In article , d ()
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange
how these
snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

It looks like a South East London problem only.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Dec 1, 1:12*pm, wrote:

In article , ()
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 01:33:49 -0800 (PST)
George wrote:
It's the worst snowfall I've seen for a very long time.

Yet in north and west london theres virtually bugger all. Strange
how these snowstorms can be so localised yet so severe.

It looks like a South East London problem only.

That's to rather narrow it down though - south and (south)east of
London as well as just SE London were affected - the criticism of
gritting was being particularly levelled at the Boroughs of Bromley,
Croydon and Sutton, the latter being to the SW (or indeed SSW) of
course - the SE London suburban rail network meanwhile is of course
fundamentally intertwined with the commuter lines coming in from Kent
and Sussex, which have suffered big problems (Kent in particular). The
major roads leading out from and circling the SE fringe - M25, M20,
M26, A2, A20 - were particularly hit last night (as was the A23 a bit
further round), and may well be tonight too.