On Sat, 08 Jan 2011 10:50:57 +0000,
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 07 Jan 2011 23:12:14 +0000, eastender wrote:

I hold two Oyster cards - a staff one and a PAYG one for privilege NR
travel. I can struggle at times to find a validator at some interchange
points to allow me to end my staff journey and commence a NR one with
the other card. Stratford is something of nightmare in this respect even
though it has retained interchange validators. Other places have lost
them completely and I'd either have to use PAYG over a section where I
get free travel or else exit to street and re-enter at the interchange
point. I'm very much a minority case so I am not moaning, merely
remarking that it can be an "effort" at times.


Are you sure you're a minority case? Anyone with point to point NR
tickets that start or end within Oyster territory will have the same
problem.

For example I sometimes do Watford Junction - Kew Gardens changing at
Willesden Junction. I have no idea if I'm allowed to enter at Watford
Junction on my NR ticket and then just touch my oyster on the pink
validator at Willesden Junction or whether I have to enter and exit
again.

It says on the Single fare finder: "When you pay as you go, you must
touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader at the start and end of
your journey. If you do not you will be charged a maximum Oyster fare."

Up until now it's been the same price from Watford Junction using PAYG
so I've just used Oyster the entire route. I notice that it's now 5p
cheaper to use my NR ticket to Willesden Junction - it's not enough to
care about so I'll continue to use PAYG the entire route rather than
risk goodness knows how much in fines.

It's never happened but it's possible that one day I might suddenly
realize that I need to change to the Bakerloo line at Harrow and
Wealdstone rather than go all the way into Euston. I have absolutely no
idea which stations might have validators on the platforms or where they
might be so that I could sensibly switch to Oyster.

You are probably unusual in that you regularly make journeys where
you're using split ticketing. Almost everyone else who is doing this
will already be "out of their comfort zone" because if they were
regularly doing something like this then they'd probably already have
the right zones on their NR ticket - you don't have to do that much
Oyster travel before adding all zones to your NR ticket becomes cost
effective.


I rather suspect there are cultural factors that allow these more
relaxed regimes to work whereas we have a far more complex one to deal
with fraud. The downside seems to be that the system is sufficiently
opaque to people that they are being tripped up by it. I have some
doubts as to how long that might be tolerated. This latest press article
is not the first on this topic and a strong public reaction has not yet
emerged. I wonder how long it might take before one does.

Possibly it won't because the losses are spread out over many, many
people. For example, my girlfriend's unresolved journey couldn't be
"fixed" because she wasn't going to use oyster again for more than 6
weeks and "there's no other way to give a refund." It just isn't worth
battling these golliaths unless you're prepared to sacrifice hours and
hours of your time for "a point of priciple". From the "golliath's" POV
the best thing to do is just completely ignore the issue. 99.95% of
people will give up and the remaining 5 in 10000 will win in court by
default and it will cost 5GBP + 75GBP costs. i.e. for every 50000 that
is incorrectly collected they'll end up paying out 400.

I've done this "point of principle" thing although over 40GBP rather
than 5GBP. Many letters, much photocopying, moneyclaim online etc
(didn't actually submit them or go to court because barclaycard refunded
the money when they got the copy of the claims forms and, presumably,
reclaimed it from the retailer).

Now, if one could "charge" their equivalent hourly salary when taking on
these "point of principle" cases then the equation would change. In the
short term the unwaged, unemployed etc still wouldn't have much recourse
but it will only take a few people making a claim for 5GBP plus 1000GBP
costs and succeeding and it being reported and suddenly the companies
would have much more incentive to get these things sorted when they do
go wrong and also to stop them happening in the first place because it
suddenly becomes cost effective for many more people to make a fuss.

To be fair to oyster, except for my girlfriends problem everything else
that I've chased up about has been sorted out without any issue - even
my mistakes when I first got my NR season ticket but made one journey
completely by PAYG and another automatically touched out when I left the
station triggering an unresolved journey. I just sent a photocopy of my
season ticket together with a copy of my journey history and a note
saying that as I wouldn't be using PAYG any more could they please
refund by cheque and a cheque arrived a couple of weeks later (with a
note apologizing for the delay). But a couple of times when it's gone
wrong I've just thought "I can't be bothered."

Tim.


--
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and there was light.

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