[Paul]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:18:23 +0000 (UTC), David Jackman
wrote:

"Q" wrote in
:

...

Prepay oyster can be got over the counter from *any* LUL ticket office.
For prepay you *do not* need a photo card, *nor* do you need to
register it. Only from the tele sales team, or the website.


What happens if the user of a "pre pay only" Oyster card wants to load a
season ticket onto it? Do they then have to register a phot card?

Has anyone actually managed to obtain a pre-pay oystercard without
having a photocard yet??

As far as I can make out, they seem to be insisting on you providing a
photocard number on the net, via the telephone, and at the ticket
offices.

[I@n]

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:18:23 +0000 (UTC), David Jackman
wrote:

"Q" wrote in
:

...

Prepay oyster can be got over the counter from *any* LUL ticket office.
For prepay you *do not* need a photo card, *nor* do you need to
register it. Only from the tele sales team, or the website.

...


What happens if the user of a "pre pay only" Oyster card wants to load a
season ticket onto it? Do they then have to register a phot card?

David

I just revisted oystercard.com and on the prepay page (in its stupid
little window) read:

* Do I need a photocard for Oyster Pre Pay?

Yes. All Oyster customers are required to enter a photocard number
when buying online. If you would like to purchase further tickets on
Oyster, such as 7-Day or Monthly you can do so right away without the
need to get another photocard.


I am going to try again at buying it tomorrow when I'm up in zone 1.
The site also now mentions a date of 15 December, after which Prepay
can be topped up at all tube stations, so maybe all the staff will
know about it now since that date has definitely passed.

[Neil Williams]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 00:04:08 +0000, "I@n" -uk wrote:

Yes. All Oyster customers are required to enter a photocard number
when buying online. If you would like to purchase further tickets on
Oyster, such as 7-Day or Monthly you can do so right away without the
need to get another photocard.

This strikes me as rather odd when I'm sure I recall earlier
promotional material for Pre-Pay stating that it was (unlike proper
seasons) transferable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

[Paul]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:09:08 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:


Yes. All Oyster customers are required to enter a photocard number
when buying online. If you would like to purchase further tickets on
Oyster, such as 7-Day or Monthly you can do so right away without the
need to get another photocard.

This strikes me as rather odd when I'm sure I recall earlier
promotional material for Pre-Pay stating that it was (unlike proper
seasons) transferable.

I'd imagine having all Oystercards linked to a photocard doesn't
prevent it from being transferable when used for pre-pay, if you are
only required to produce a photocard when using the card as a season
ticket.

However, I think one area where the 'transferable' option could cause
huge confusion is the situation where an Oystercard contains both a
season ticket, AND some pre-pay credit.
If you then lend (transfer) your Oystercard to someone, how do they
insure that their ticket is taken from the Pre-pay balance and not
just authorised as part of the owners season ticket (which could
result in a prosecution!)?

Maybe they should have just issued 2 separate types of Oystercard,
pre-pay and season ticket.

[Neil Williams]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:27:08 +0000, Paul
wrote:

Maybe they should have just issued 2 separate types of Oystercard,
pre-pay and season ticket.

Okay, here's an idea - how about making *all* Oystercard tickets
transferrable? Seasons, pre-pay, the lot?

Unlike a paper ticket, a lost Oyster can (presumably) be deactivated
if stolen, so a photocard is not as important to avoid that. The only
thing you'd lose is an ability to claim back penalty fares less an
admin fee if you genuinely forgot your ticket (do TfL do that?) The
only other thing to watch out for is people passing them through bus
windows like they often do for transferrable operator-specific bus
passes elsewhere in the country.

Other countries (e.g. Germany) have transferrable seasons (though
often at a slightly higher price) - why not?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

[Kat]

In message , Paul
writes
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:09:08 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:


Yes. All Oyster customers are required to enter a photocard number
when buying online. If you would like to purchase further tickets on
Oyster, such as 7-Day or Monthly you can do so right away without the
need to get another photocard.

This strikes me as rather odd when I'm sure I recall earlier
promotional material for Pre-Pay stating that it was (unlike proper
seasons) transferable.

I'd imagine having all Oystercards linked to a photocard doesn't
prevent it from being transferable when used for pre-pay, if you are
only required to produce a photocard when using the card as a season
ticket.

However, I think one area where the 'transferable' option could cause
huge confusion is the situation where an Oystercard contains both a
season ticket, AND some pre-pay credit.
If you then lend (transfer) your Oystercard to someone, how do they
insure that their ticket is taken from the Pre-pay balance and not
just authorised as part of the owners season ticket (which could
result in a prosecution!)?

If the Oyster card contains a season ticket as well as Pre Pay, then it
is no longer transferable.
But, eventually, you will be able to buy a magnetic ticket for another
person using the Pre Pay element of your Oyster card.

Maybe they should have just issued 2 separate types of Oystercard,
pre-pay and season ticket.

AFAICS, there is nothing to stop you from buying another Oyster card for
Pre Pay only. Of course, then you'd have to pay the £3.00 deposit too
and remember which was which.
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

[I@n]

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 17:00:59 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:
Unlike a paper ticket, a lost Oyster can (presumably) be deactivated
if stolen, so a photocard is not as important to avoid that. The only
thing you'd lose is an ability to claim back penalty fares less an
admin fee if you genuinely forgot your ticket (do TfL do that?) The
only other thing to watch out for is people passing them through bus
windows like they often do for transferrable operator-specific bus
passes elsewhere in the country.

But presumably the oyster reader on the bus knows it just saw the same
oystercard 30 seconds earlier before it was passed out the window, and
therefore refuses it the second time (if travelcard) or charges a
second ticket (if prepay). Similar to how the tube gates have for
years rejected paper tickets if a second attempt is made to use them
within five minutes or so.

Passing the ticket out the window passes a visual/human inspection but
surely not a computer inspection.

[Dave Newt]

Kat wrote:

In message , Paul
writes
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:09:08 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:


Yes. All Oyster customers are required to enter a photocard number
when buying online. If you would like to purchase further tickets on
Oyster, such as 7-Day or Monthly you can do so right away without the
need to get another photocard.

This strikes me as rather odd when I'm sure I recall earlier
promotional material for Pre-Pay stating that it was (unlike proper
seasons) transferable.

I'd imagine having all Oystercards linked to a photocard doesn't
prevent it from being transferable when used for pre-pay, if you are
only required to produce a photocard when using the card as a season
ticket.

However, I think one area where the 'transferable' option could cause
huge confusion is the situation where an Oystercard contains both a
season ticket, AND some pre-pay credit.
If you then lend (transfer) your Oystercard to someone, how do they
insure that their ticket is taken from the Pre-pay balance and not
just authorised as part of the owners season ticket (which could
result in a prosecution!)?

If the Oyster card contains a season ticket as well as Pre Pay, then it
is no longer transferable.
But, eventually, you will be able to buy a magnetic ticket for another
person using the Pre Pay element of your Oyster card.

Maybe they should have just issued 2 separate types of Oystercard,
pre-pay and season ticket.

AFAICS, there is nothing to stop you from buying another Oyster card for
Pre Pay only. Of course, then you'd have to pay the £3.00 deposit too
and remember which was which.

Yes - in fact I was thiking that having say a blue one for seasons and a
green one for prepay (or whatever) would have been a good idea just for
all these reasons.

But I picked up a leaflet at Walthamstow Central last night which gave a
scenario where one multi-card would be better.

The leaflet contained two bits of info:

(1) Ticket Extensions
If you have an Oyster season, and are travelling to an underground or
DLR station outside the zone covered by your ticket, the additional fare
(Ticket Extension) will be automatically calculated and deducted from
any Pre-Pay balance you may have.

(2) New anti-fraud feature
If you have an Oyster season and it is used outside the zones for which
the ticket is valid, it will be debited with the cost of any extra
travel made. Customers will be unable to enter any tube station until
the negative balance has been cleared.

(The suggestion is that if you keep a few quid on pre-pay, it will
enable (1) automatically, but without Pre-Pay on the card too, you will
get (2).

If the season and pre-pay were on different cards, then the above system
(which I think sounds good) couldn't work, I don't think.

dave

[Kat]

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:

AFAICS, there is nothing to stop you from buying another Oyster card for
Pre Pay only. Of course, then you'd have to pay the £3.00 deposit too
and remember which was which.

Yes - in fact I was thiking that having say a blue one for seasons and a
green one for prepay (or whatever) would have been a good idea just for
all these reasons.

You could just ask for one of the ordinary black plastic wallets in
which to keep one for easy identification.
The wallets do not have to be opened (as I see many people do.)

But I picked up a leaflet at Walthamstow Central last night which gave a
scenario where one multi-card would be better.

The leaflet contained two bits of info:

(1) Ticket Extensions
If you have an Oyster season, and are travelling to an underground or
DLR station outside the zone covered by your ticket, the additional fare
(Ticket Extension) will be automatically calculated and deducted from
any Pre-Pay balance you may have.

(2) New anti-fraud feature
If you have an Oyster season and it is used outside the zones for which
the ticket is valid, it will be debited with the cost of any extra
travel made. Customers will be unable to enter any tube station until
the negative balance has been cleared.

(The suggestion is that if you keep a few quid on pre-pay, it will
enable (1) automatically, but without Pre-Pay on the card too, you will
get (2).

If the season and pre-pay were on different cards, then the above system
(which I think sounds good) couldn't work, I don't think.


No, it wouldn't but you could keep some Pre Pay on your season ticket
Oyster for extensions and the other Oyster for other needs.
If you have an Oyster season ticket with no Pre Pay on it, 57 will show
on the POD and you'll just be stopped at the gates and directed to the
Assistance Window to pay the difference if you go out of zone.
--
Kat "bears, said the taxi driver, is sixpence extra,
sticky bears is ninepence"

[Dave Newt]

Kat wrote:

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:

AFAICS, there is nothing to stop you from buying another Oyster card for
Pre Pay only. Of course, then you'd have to pay the £3.00 deposit too
and remember which was which.

Yes - in fact I was thiking that having say a blue one for seasons and a
green one for prepay (or whatever) would have been a good idea just for
all these reasons.

You could just ask for one of the ordinary black plastic wallets in
which to keep one for easy identification.
The wallets do not have to be opened (as I see many people do.)

But I picked up a leaflet at Walthamstow Central last night which gave a
scenario where one multi-card would be better.

The leaflet contained two bits of info:

(1) Ticket Extensions
If you have an Oyster season, and are travelling to an underground or
DLR station outside the zone covered by your ticket, the additional fare
(Ticket Extension) will be automatically calculated and deducted from
any Pre-Pay balance you may have.

(2) New anti-fraud feature
If you have an Oyster season and it is used outside the zones for which
the ticket is valid, it will be debited with the cost of any extra
travel made. Customers will be unable to enter any tube station until
the negative balance has been cleared.

(The suggestion is that if you keep a few quid on pre-pay, it will
enable (1) automatically, but without Pre-Pay on the card too, you will
get (2).

If the season and pre-pay were on different cards, then the above system
(which I think sounds good) couldn't work, I don't think.


No, it wouldn't but you could keep some Pre Pay on your season ticket
Oyster for extensions and the other Oyster for other needs.

But then all you have done is make *three* different types of credit
rather than two. (1) Pre-Pay for excess fares, (2) Pre-pay for
pay-as-you-go and (3) Seasons.

This would seem to me to be yet another complication rather than
simplification in the fare structure...

I think whoever said earlier in the thread that it will all work more
smoothly if the entire ticketing structure is reformed was spot on...