"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south of
Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that line,
though.

No, the single line from Canonbury tunnel is separate past Drayton Park,
and it is at a higher level - and when it reverts to double track the down
Canonbury line passes over both the up and down Moorgate lines. They
remain separate all the way up to Finsbury Park, with the Moorgate lines
on the 'insides'. Both down lines pass under the four main lines, the
only connections are just south of FP station, similar on the up side.

No apparent space where there could have been platforms when it was two
track - I haven't ever read of any.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

I'd recommend Google Maps aerial view as by far the easiest explanation...

The 'Bird's Eye' view on Bing Maps is useful for this kinda thing too -
indeed I've just checked and it's good for looking at this case (tip - you
now need to put a tick in the 'show angled view' box). And one can see a
certain amount from Drayton Park the road itself - the Canonbury Curve line
passes under the road in what I guess would be categorised as a short tunnel
before emerging into the daylight and running in a cutting parallel to Arvon
Rd before then entering the (proper) Canonbury Curve tunnel. At street
level, if you know what you're looking at/for, you can see some of this -
there's fencing you can see through from Drayton Park (road), and there are
gaps in the wooden fencing on Arvon Road (though you can't really see much
there) - between the cutting and Arvon Road there's a length of allotments.

Hypothetically speaking, I think space could have been created for platforms
on the Canonbury Curve line at Drayton Park - though like Paul I've never
come across any mention of there ever having been any in the past. An
interesting 'what if' - it would have turned sleepy Drayton Park station
into something a bit different.

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate
underground. Are they completely separate right up their portals?

You'll appreciate this I think Tom, found it this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxk08n8Jag

At about 1.03 you can see a connection from Finsbury Park coming in
from the right of the southbound tunnel. That approximates to the
current 'up Moorgate' route from Finsbury Park - the flyover shown
above has since been rebuilt, but that is carrying the down line
from Canonbury over the 'tubes'. The LU tunnel portals were
demolished and a new down Moorgate route formed roughly where they
were, passing under the down Canonbury.

I think at the time the film was shot that connection on the right
would have been unused, remains of the abandoned 'Northern Heights'
route (which Colin has since mentioned) that would have extended
the Northern Line north west of Finsbury Park.

The connection was used for stock transfers to and from Highgate until
1970.

Hope that is of interest to you, and many others.

Indeed so. I remember visiting the Northern City Line as it was then
called at around that time when it still had the Standard Stock with 2 car
trains off-peak.


--
Colin Rosenstiel

To move away from the esoteric discussions of the Cannonbury curve ...

Is there now a case for reinstaing the Great Northern service to
Moorgate at evenings/weekends? Highbury is a far easier connection to
the tube than Kings Cross, and with connections now to SE London as
well it is surely would be useful to many more people.

Most of the stations along the line are already staffed during tube
hours, so I can't see that there would be a great deal of cost. Essex
Road may have to remain closed. As for Drayton Park, its not
underground and FCC don't seem to be adverse to serving unstaffed
stations eleswhere. There may have to be special arrangements when
Arsenal are playing at home.

I am not an expert in these matters- there may be issues I haven't
thought about. But as a customer I know which I'd prefer.

peter

On Thu, 3 Mar 2011, Paul Scott wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
th.li...

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground. Are
they completely separate right up their portals?

You'll appreciate this I think Tom, found it this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZxk08n8Jag

At about 1.03 you can see a connection from Finsbury Park coming in from the
right of the southbound tunnel. That approximates to the current 'up
Moorgate' route from Finsbury Park - the flyover shown above has since been
rebuilt, but that is carrying the down line from Canonbury over the 'tubes'.
The LU tunnel portals were demolished and a new down Moorgate route formed
roughly where they were, passing under the down Canonbury.

That does illustrate things quite clearly, thanks!

tom

--
HATE THIS SONG ITS TERRIBLE! SHES ANNOYIN ASWELL AND I DONT LIKE HER
!!!!!!!!!! ;( -- songlover

On Thu, 3 Mar 2011, d wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 22:34:44 +0000
Tom Anderson wrote:
Specifically, i think it's that there isn't room for a double track
bearing freight trains with overhead. Freight trains being taller than
passenger trains (passenger trains all fit in W6A in this country, i
believe; squinting at a map from 2004, it looks like the Canonbury curve
might be W9).

I don't think its the height so much as the profile. Passenger trains
curve in towards the top whereas container freight wagons are a box
shape which tend not to work in tunnels where the curved roof would cut
in on the boxy corners.

Iggsacktly, they're taller at the edges!

tom

--
HATE THIS SONG ITS TERRIBLE! SHES ANNOYIN ASWELL AND I DONT LIKE HER
!!!!!!!!!! ;( -- songlover

On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\02 22:44, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south
of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that
line, though.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road). The Canonbury Curve tunnel
ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear from the satellite photos in
the map resource of your choice.

Yes, so it is. I'd looked at Drayton Park, but not spotted the Canonbury
line heading south!

In fact, if you follow the line of the track south across Ronalds Road, it
lines up with a driveway between two rows of modern houses that reaches to
Highbury Fields. I would guess they were built on either side of the
railway tunnel, as it would be too shallow to build houses over.

tom

--
HATE THIS SONG ITS TERRIBLE! SHES ANNOYIN ASWELL AND I DONT LIKE HER
!!!!!!!!!! ;( -- songlover

On 2011\03\04 23:11, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\02 22:44, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south
of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that
line, though.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road). The Canonbury Curve
tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear from the satellite
photos in the map resource of your choice.

Yes, so it is. I'd looked at Drayton Park, but not spotted the Canonbury
line heading south!

In fact, if you follow the line of the track south across Ronalds Road,
it lines up with a driveway between two rows of modern houses that
reaches to Highbury Fields. I would guess they were built on either side
of the railway tunnel, as it would be too shallow to build houses over.

I see where you're coming from, but putting a drive down the middle
would be the only logical way to use that site, even with no tunnel. The
more interesting question is what was there before the houses were built.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\04 23:11, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\02 22:44, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2011, wrote:

Were there at any point stations on between the Canonbury tunnel and
Finsbury Park?

There still is! The line through the tunnel joins up with the Northern
City line to Moorgate where it comes to the surface, immediately south
of Drayton Park. I have no idea if there were ever platforms on that
line, though.

Come to think of it, i have no idea how the tunnels relate underground.
Are they completely separate right up their portals?

The Big Tube ends at Drayton Park (the road). The Canonbury Curve
tunnel ends near Ronalds Road. This is quite clear from the satellite
photos in the map resource of your choice.

Yes, so it is. I'd looked at Drayton Park, but not spotted the Canonbury
line heading south!

In fact, if you follow the line of the track south across Ronalds Road,
it lines up with a driveway between two rows of modern houses that
reaches to Highbury Fields. I would guess they were built on either side
of the railway tunnel, as it would be too shallow to build houses over.

I see where you're coming from, but putting a drive down the middle
would be the only logical way to use that site, even with no tunnel.

Nonsense! Straight lines can ONLY be explained by buried railway lines! No
other cause is possible! Well, except ley lines.

The more interesting question is what was there before the houses were
built.

True. I've had a look at the 1949 one-inch map, and apparently, it was a
huge letter S.

tom

--
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

On 2011\03\05 20:18, Tom Anderson wrote:

Nonsense! Straight lines can ONLY be explained by buried railway lines!
No other cause is possible! Well, except ley lines.

Did we ever find out what's under Tabernacle Street, Rivington Street,
Virginia Road, Columbia Road, Goldsmiths Row, Broadway Market, Martello
Street and Powerscroft Road?

On Sun, 6 Mar 2011, Basil Jet wrote:

On 2011\03\05 20:18, Tom Anderson wrote:

Nonsense! Straight lines can ONLY be explained by buried railway lines!
No other cause is possible! Well, except ley lines.

Did we ever find out what's under Tabernacle Street, Rivington Street,
Virginia Road, Columbia Road, Goldsmiths Row, Broadway Market, Martello
Street and Powerscroft Road?

The Chelsea-Hackney Line!

Mind you, i can't quite see how it meets up with the Jubilee.

tom

--
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? -- John
Maynard Keynes