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Old January 2nd 04, 06:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.




If the zone becomes the area inside the North and South Circular
roads, then I (for one) will be inside. Will I be eligible to pay 10%
of the charge to drive inside the new zone? I am outside the current
zone and pay the full charge, to drive to say Oxford Sreet.

So there will be less of disincentive for me to use my car. Is that
the intention?

Gordo (London E14)
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Old January 2nd 04, 06:59 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

In message , Gordon Joly
writes

If the zone becomes the area inside the North and South Circular
roads, then I (for one) will be inside. Will I be eligible to pay 10%
of the charge to drive inside the new zone? I am outside the current
zone and pay the full charge, to drive to say Oxford Sreet.

So there will be less of disincentive for me to use my car. Is that
the intention?


What makes you think the entire area would be a single charge zone?

Having set up the central zone infrastructure, there is every incentive
for that to remain and for new ones to surround it, in a manner similar
to tube zones.

Even if you got your resident discount, you might still have to pay the
full charge to enter the central zone. And you might even find yourself
having to pay a fiver to travel outside the N/S circular but within the
area surrounded by the M25. Oh, joy!

--
Paul Terry
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Old January 2nd 04, 07:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 18:14:39 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Joly wrote:

If the zone becomes the area inside the North and South Circular
roads, then I (for one) will be inside. Will I be eligible to pay 10%
of the charge to drive inside the new zone? I am outside the current
zone and pay the full charge, to drive to say Oxford Sreet.

So there will be less of disincentive for me to use my car. Is that
the intention?


From http://www.london.gov.uk

Statement from the Mayor
2-1-2004 002


The Mayor said:

"These stories are totally untrue. I have no proposal to extend the
congestion charge to the whole of London, nor to the suburbs, nor to town
centres like Bromley or Kingston, nor to main roads into or within London.
I have never even discussed such proposals which are in any case
technically impossible. My only proposal is a western extension of the
existing central London zone to cover most of the boroughs of Westminster
and Kensington and Chelsea. This would include a 90 per cent discount for
residents and could not be introduced before 2006. Any wider policy of road
pricing is an issue for national government probably requiring a general
election manifesto commitment and certainly requiring new legislation"

Those loons from the standard have been trying to rubbish the CC since it
began, with very little luck.

Steve
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Old January 2nd 04, 07:11 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.


"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Gordon Joly
writes

If the zone becomes the area inside the North and South Circular
roads, then I (for one) will be inside. Will I be eligible to pay 10%
of the charge to drive inside the new zone? I am outside the current
zone and pay the full charge, to drive to say Oxford Sreet.

So there will be less of disincentive for me to use my car. Is that
the intention?


What makes you think the entire area would be a single charge zone?

Having set up the central zone infrastructure, there is every incentive
for that to remain and for new ones to surround it, in a manner similar
to tube zones.

Even if you got your resident discount, you might still have to pay the
full charge to enter the central zone. And you might even find yourself
having to pay a fiver to travel outside the N/S circular but within the
area surrounded by the M25. Oh, joy!


Agreed; think of the way that residents' parking is split into zones. A
permit to park in residents' bays in, say, Putney doesn't allow you to park
in residents' bays in, say, Chelsea.

PaulO


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Old January 3rd 04, 07:59 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

In message , Steve Peake
writes

From http://www.london.gov.uk

Statement from the Mayor
2-1-2004 002


The Mayor said:

"These stories are totally untrue. I have no proposal to extend the
congestion charge to the whole of London, nor to the suburbs, nor to town
centres like Bromley or Kingston, nor to main roads into or within London.


(Although of course he said in April that "We could do Heathrow more
quickly than west London, which has now slipped to Christmas 2005")

(snip)

Those loons from the standard have been trying to rubbish the CC since it
began, with very little luck.


According to the BBC yesterday, the suggestion came from TfL:

A TfL spokesman told BBC News Online: "This is just an idea at
the moment but we want to bring the benefits central London has
seen, as a result of congestion charging, to other areas of
London affected by heavy traffic."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3362683.stm

--
Paul Terry


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Old January 3rd 04, 10:18 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

Paul Terry wrote:
snip

According to the BBC yesterday, the suggestion came from TfL:

A TfL spokesman told BBC News Online: "This is just an idea at
the moment but we want to bring the benefits central London
has seen, as a result of congestion charging, to other areas
of London affected by heavy traffic."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3362683.stm


What benefits? Local shops closing due to massive reductions in passing
trade and higher delivery costs, companies moving out of London to reduce
costs of reps' cars and staff lateness due to poor public transport links,
etc.

Like Gordo I also live in E14 and our local Press has been warning us for
the last year that the CCZ could be extended eastwards at least as far as
the Blackwall Tunnel bringing one of the poorest areas in the UK into the
zone. Local shops have already been decimated as Tower Hamlets Council have
raised shop/business rents and Business Rate Council Tax astronomically - in
some cases backdated up to 7 years (they said that due to an error earlier
rent rises were not implemented and they were just 'bringing the records up
to date'). We have lost our butchers, bakers, greengrocers, fish shops,
etc. only to have the premises taken over by a myriad fast food outlets.

The result of an extension to the CCZ would be a huge increase in
unemployment in an area with high unemployment to start with.
--
Phil ,,,^.".^,,,


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Old January 3rd 04, 11:20 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:18:09 -0000, "Redonda"
wrote:


What benefits? Local shops closing due to massive reductions in passing
trade and higher delivery costs, companies moving out of London to reduce
costs of reps' cars and staff lateness due to poor public transport links,
etc.


How can you have passing trade in the central charging zone - either
before or after charging?

There is nowhere in the central area that isn't covered by either
yellow lines, red lines, parking meters or residents parking bays so
passing trade was always impossible.

Unless you count illegal parking.


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Old January 3rd 04, 12:38 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

In article , Richard Adamfi
writes
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:18:09 -0000, "Redonda"
wrote:


What benefits? Local shops closing due to massive reductions in passing
trade and higher delivery costs, companies moving out of London to reduce
costs of reps' cars and staff lateness due to poor public transport links,
etc.


How can you have passing trade in the central charging zone - either
before or after charging?


Quite easily. It was people who were going past who now don't as they
have to pay to travel that particular route.

There is nowhere in the central area that isn't covered by either
yellow lines, red lines, parking meters or residents parking bays so
passing trade was always impossible.


No it wasn't. See above. I go past thousands of on street parking bays
every day in London. Yes you have to pay to use them, but 20p for a
quick nip to a couple of shops isn't too bad.

Unless you count illegal parking.


Done that too. Especially outside the sandwich bar near the Pentonville
Road.......
--
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Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
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Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.
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Old January 3rd 04, 03:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.

"Redonda" wrote the following in:


Like Gordo I also live in E14 and our local Press has been warning
us for the last year that the CCZ could be extended eastwards at
least as far as the Blackwall Tunnel bringing one of the poorest
areas in the UK into the zone.


I agree that it would be total insanity to extend the zone into Tower
Hamlets. The Central London congestion charing zone has excellent
public transport and the average person doesn't really need to drive
there. Tower Hamlets has good public transport but it's not as good.
It's also got a lot more residents and a lot of those residents are
poor. Not to mention the fact that by creating a congestion charging
zone there, a lot of people could be cut off from driving to local
shops and may therefore have to drive longer distances to shops outside
the zone.

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Old January 3rd 04, 03:58 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Congestion charging expansion plans: zone expansion.


"Redonda" wrote in message
...
Paul Terry wrote:
snip

According to the BBC yesterday, the suggestion came from TfL:

A TfL spokesman told BBC News Online: "This is just an idea at
the moment but we want to bring the benefits central London
has seen, as a result of congestion charging, to other areas
of London affected by heavy traffic."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3362683.stm


What benefits? Local shops closing due to massive reductions in passing
trade and higher delivery costs, companies moving out of London to reduce
costs of reps' cars and staff lateness due to poor public transport links,
etc.

Like Gordo I also live in E14 and our local Press has been warning us for
the last year that the CCZ could be extended eastwards at least as far as
the Blackwall Tunnel bringing one of the poorest areas in the UK into the
zone. Local shops have already been decimated as Tower Hamlets Council

have
raised shop/business rents and Business Rate Council Tax astronomically


Business Rates (the property tax for commercial premises) aren't set by
local councils but by the Government.

Council Tax (the property tax for homes) is set by local councils but its
level is determined mainly by the level of Government grants which cover the
vast majority of council spending.

Local councils have a legal obligation to set commercial rents at a
'commercial level' i.e. as high as possible. If councillors try to keep
commercial rents artificially low then they can be taken to court and
surcharged.

PaulO




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