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Old October 26th 11, 07:11 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Tube Plan To Axe 1,500 Jobs And Close All But 30 Ticket Offices

On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:17:45 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Yes, but converting an existing system is certainly not impossible. The
RATP in Paris are doing just that with Métro line 1 at present, having
installed platform-edge doors at all stations. Currently it works with
ATO like the Central/Victoria/Jubilee lines in London. Note that Paris
retrofitted ATO to most lines starting in the 1970s. Some of the
converted 1959-vintage stock is still running.


Unfortunately! I suppose they are the most "Paris" of all the stock.

It seems odd that the prototype automation in the 50s relied on
photo-electric cells and bits of metal screwed to the track. I think
Barcelona's trials had similar technology. They must both be on their
3rd generation of ATO now at least. Perhaps LT benefited from waiting
a few years to invent something more flexible.

(Another) Richard.

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Old October 26th 11, 09:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Tube Plan To Axe 1,500 Jobs And Close All But 30 Ticket Offices

Richard wrote on 26 October 2011 20:11:56 ...
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:17:45 +0100, "Richard J."
wrote:

Yes, but converting an existing system is certainly not impossible. The
RATP in Paris are doing just that with Mtro line 1 at present, having
installed platform-edge doors at all stations. Currently it works with
ATO like the Central/Victoria/Jubilee lines in London. Note that Paris
retrofitted ATO to most lines starting in the 1970s. Some of the
converted 1959-vintage stock is still running.


Unfortunately! I suppose they are the most "Paris" of all the stock.


Indeed, and the sheer exuberance of the old rubber-tyred stock on, say,
line 11 is still exciting in a way that only the 92 stock on the Central
Line gets close to.

It seems odd that the prototype automation in the 50s relied on
photo-electric cells and bits of metal screwed to the track. I think
Barcelona's trials had similar technology. They must both be on their
3rd generation of ATO now at least. Perhaps LT benefited from waiting
a few years to invent something more flexible.


Barcelona was the first ATO in full public service (1963) according to
Wikipedia. London and Paris developed ATO at about the same time, but
the pity is that London DIDN'T benefit from it except for the Victoria
line for 30 years, whereas Paris rolled out the system to 12 lines by 1979.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
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Old October 29th 11, 09:51 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Tube Plan To Axe 1,500 Jobs And Close All But 30 Ticket Offices


"Paul" wrote in message
...
On Oct 24, 6:01 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 01:19:15 -0700 (PDT), Paul
wrote:

Just came across this on BBC News


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15422882
The only "fully remote" metro I have used is the VAL system in Lille,
and the trains there are far too small to be able to cope with the
crowds in London. "Fully remote" operation would require platform
edge doors at every station, and I would be very surprised if that
could be achieved in 9 years, given current budget constraints.


There are other examples of driverless automated metros. The North
East line and recently completed Circle line in Singapore are fully
automated and many trains run without any staff on board. The
Singapore MRT is not exactly a backwater system and carries high
volumes. I would expect the next MRT line - the Downtown Line - will
also be fully automated and it will have a high level of patronage
given its route. The stations are designed with platform edge doors to
provide full segregation from the track. On the older MRT lines half
height platform edge gates are being fitted at open air stations while
underground stations have platform edge doors.

I'm not sure how Hong Kong MTR is proceeding but the new South Island
line will probably be fully automatic given it is physically separate
from other MTR lines. I'd expect the MTR will make the move to full
automation at some point when control system and rolling stock renewal
permit it. Underground stations have had PEDs retrofitted while the
few open air stations on the older lines don't yet have doors or gates
at the platform edge. Newer lines have had PEDs from opening.

I suspect there may also be other fully automated lines in Asia but
I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about those systems.
--
Paul C


I didn't realise the Singapore system was automated. I was there last
year and used the MRT quite a bit.

However, is it not much easier to build an automated system from
scratch rather than convert an existing system? Think of the testing
that would be involved, not to mention the considerable cost of
converting existing infrastructure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

They did this in Nuremberg when they added a new spur to the cross city
line.

The "testing involved" caused an overrun of three years on a two year long
project.

tim




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