On 1/23/2012 4:51 PM, John Levine wrote:

I gather that if you already have a credit card point of sale terminal,
it's a cheap add-on. The hard part may be negotiating the floor limit
below which the customer doesn't have to sign. At Wegmans, it's quite
high, $50.

Actually, it may drop the costs of the transactions as they may charge
less as it is harder to counterfeit the chip than it is the card swipe.

John Levine wrote:

Yet here in the United States, when prices for airline travel and hotel
rooms are stated, they included taxes. In Europe, travel prices are
more often stated without all taxes included.

Airline prices are quoted with tax because there is an FTC rule that
says they have
to do that. They decided, quite reasonably, that quoting the price
without the tax
is misleading.

The rule isn't quite that simple, they're apparently allowed to quote
the fake price
so long as the real price is in tiny print nearby.

It's not an FTC rule. It's a US DOT rule, according to several news articles
I've read. No, it is NOT acceptable to list the price, net of taxes and
fees, in large type, with the total price in small type. The new rule
on advertising total prices including taxes and fees takes effect on the 26th.

I cannot find anything similar for hotel quotes, though.

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:40:08 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
wrote:

wrote:

In the US, there is a credit card feature called "Blink" (Chase Bank)
where one just touches the card against the reader and the charge is
instantly posted. This is faster than cash or conventional credit
cards. Some big chains accept this, like McDonald's, CVS drugstores,
and the Wawa convenience store chain.

Proximity card. A tiny transponder and chip are built into the card.
RFID technology.

The major German and Swiss cities with S-Bahns and/or U-Bahns (like
Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, and Zurich) do this with paper tickets and
cards (I think some with photo-id) that are read by roving inspector.
POP obviously works even on heavily used systems. At least in some US
cities like San Diego, California and Newark, New Jersey, the legal
framework is available for it to work in the United States. Go
Transit in Toronto also uses POP.

Clark Morris

Proximity card. A tiny transponder and chip are built into the card.
RFID technology.

No, it's contactless EMV which is not RFID.

Please do at least a few milliseconds of research before guessing.

R's,
John

On 1/23/2012 5:16 PM, wrote:
On Jan 23, 9:18 am, "Adam H. wrote:

Different sales tax rates apply to different goods in my state. Also, in
my state, newspapers and magazines are not taxed. It's really obnoxious
to impose all these high sales tax collection costs on merchants.

In my state, newspapers are not taxed, but magazines are taxed. It
got funny with certain periodicals like TV Guide--was that a
"newspaper" or a "magazine"? Different merchants charged it in
different ways.

In my state, most clothes are not taxes, but a few types of clothing
are taxed. Don't know why that is. My state does not tax candy bars,
but it seems that other states do. My state does tax soda.

I wonder how many states tax newspapers. I was surprised to be
charged sales tax in Washington, DC when I bought a paper.


I know you live in NJ also, and you don't have it quite right. NJ does
tax candy, but you have to read the ingredients to determine the
tax-ability of an item. If it contains flour, it is not considered to
be candy, and it is not taxable, things like Kit Kats and Nestle's Crunch.

NJ taxes soft drinks, not just soda, defined as a drink that does not
need refrigeration before opening, that is sweetened, and that is less
than 50% juice. This results in some items being taxed that you would
probably consider to be juice.

NJ taxes newsstand sales of periodicals but not mail subscriptions.

Most states do not tax newspapers, usually defined as periodicals that
are qualified carry legal notices. A few states and DC do tax newspapers.

Also, NJ taxes the extremely expensive fine fur and leather goods (no
other clothing), presumably because if you can afford to buy those, you
can afford the tax. Of the states that exempt clothing, there is some
variation in the definition of what's clothing and what's an accessory,
resulting in variations in taxation.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ

A smartcard would presumably also work on Metro-North and LIRR, which
are also the MTA, with the remaining question being NJ Transit.

The question yet to be answered is how to verify a passenger's length
of journey on distance-based fare commuter rail systems.

This is not exactly a new problem, you know.

On regional rapid transit, they do so by having turnstiles at both
entry and exit, so the exit turnstile verifies the ticket is valid
for the distance travelled.

But on various large commuter rail networks there are no turnstiles.
Adding turnstiles would cost a fortune, ...

Which is true, but there's no need to do so.

The Caltrain commuter trains between San Francisco and San Jose let
you pay with the Clipper smart card. All of the stations are ungated, but
there are Clipper readers on the platforms. Before you get on the train,
you tap your card, after you get off, you tap it again.

If you don't tap in, and a conductor checks your ticket, you get
fined. If you don't tap out, you're charged for the longest possible
trip from where you got on, so it's in your own interest to tap out.
Commuters get a monthly pass on their card for the stations where they
get on and off, and the conductor can check the card to see that the
pass is valid for where they are.

This isn't rocket science. Every system I know that has smart cards
and distance sensitive fares does this, from the Seattle light rail to
TfL in London to the Maokong gondola in Taipei. On the London
underground, most of the stations are gated, but some aren't, and you
have to be sure to tap in and out or you risk being fined if there's a
ticket check on the train or the platform.

R's,
John

John Levine writes:
The question yet to be answered is how to verify a passenger's length
of journey on distance-based fare commuter rail systems.

This is not exactly a new problem, you know.

On regional rapid transit, they do so by having turnstiles at both
entry and exit, so the exit turnstile verifies the ticket is valid
for the distance travelled.

But on various large commuter rail networks there are no turnstiles.
Adding turnstiles would cost a fortune, ...

Which is true, but there's no need to do so.

The Caltrain commuter trains between San Francisco and San Jose let
you pay with the Clipper smart card. All of the stations are ungated, but
there are Clipper readers on the platforms. Before you get on the train,
you tap your card, after you get off, you tap it again.

If you don't tap in, and a conductor checks your ticket, you get
fined. If you don't tap out, you're charged for the longest possible
trip from where you got on, so it's in your own interest to tap out.
Commuters get a monthly pass on their card for the stations where they
get on and off, and the conductor can check the card to see that the
pass is valid for where they are.

This isn't rocket science. Every system I know that has smart cards
and distance sensitive fares does this, from the Seattle light rail to
TfL in London to the Maokong gondola in Taipei. On the London
underground, most of the stations are gated, but some aren't, and you
have to be sure to tap in and out or you risk being fined if there's a
ticket check on the train or the platform.

For many systems, I'm not sure it makes all that much difference: as
soon as a large percentage of the passengers have to "tap-in / tap-out",
then you need pretty much exactly the same infrastructure as you do for
smart-card-based faregates... and practically speaking, it's a good idea
to organize platform access in a similar way too, to make
tapping-in/tapping-out simple[*] for passengers. In other words,
smart-card-based POP essentially needs "optional" faregates (which
pass-holders can bypass).

[For systems where 95% of the passengers are using a pass, you can more
or less skimp on the card readers -- but hopefully these systems have
aspirations to serve more than just commuters!]

-miles

--
.... reality itself is blind unintelligent force, and it is only a fluke,
it is only as a result of pure chances, that resulting from the
exuberance of this energy there are people, with values, with reason,
with languages, with cultures, ... and with love. Just a fluke.
[Alan Watts, "The Ceramic and the Fully Automatic"]

For many systems, I'm not sure it makes all that much difference: as
soon as a large percentage of the passengers have to "tap-in / tap-out",
then you need pretty much exactly the same infrastructure as you do for
smart-card-based faregates... and practically speaking, it's a good idea
to organize platform access in a similar way too, to make
tapping-in/tapping-out simple[*] for passengers. In other words,
smart-card-based POP essentially needs "optional" faregates (which
pass-holders can bypass).

The question was whether currently ungated systems would have to
install gates on all the platforms which would mean closing off other
access, potentially a lot of construction work if the platforms don't
have walls or fences now. It can also lead to some annoying results,
e.g., since they added faregates to the train station in Cambridge UK,
you now can't get to the toilets without a ticket. That's not policy,
it's just that the toilets open onto the gated platform rather than
the ungated ticket hall.

At the Caltrain stations, the platforms are wide open, and all they
did to handle Clipper cards was to install one or two parking meter
sized tap readers on each platform.

R's,
John

It's not an FTC rule. It's a US DOT rule, according to several news
articles
I've read. No, it is NOT acceptable to list the price, net of taxes and
fees, in large type, with the total price in small type. The new rule
on advertising total prices including taxes and fees takes effect on the
26th.

I cannot find anything similar for hotel quotes, though.

In America, on goods subject to sales taxes, practically 100% of pricing is
always without local, state taxes. They are added at the time of payment.

In Canada, because we have a value added tax and depending on what province
you live in as it varies, shown prices will not include federal and
provincial taxes. These are also added at the time of payment.



--
Cheers.

Roger Traviss


Photos of the late HO scale GER: -

http://www.greateasternrailway.com

For more photos not in the above album and kitbashes etc..:-
http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...Great_Eastern/

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:

There are also millions of merchants who don't accept credit cards. And
plenty of folks in far flung countries who'll take dollars in cash.


The times I have spent in Africa, with the exception of South Africa the
US dollar was far more accepted than local cash, and in many locations
cards impossible to use.

Of course, those are particular circumstances compared to, say, Europe
or Canada.

However, despite complaints that Europe or USA's economy is terrible,
more than 50% of the worlds population lives in conditions that are
closer to that found in rural Africa than the USA or Europe.

--
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