In message , at 12:02:33 on Tue, 17
Jan 2012, Peter Campbell Smith remarked:
I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is called,
but it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

On a Friday afternoon (eg) the place is heaving. If you are waiting in
front of the departure board towards the west (St Pancras) side and your
train is announced from 0-4, it used to be easiest to walk round behind the
board.

And access the platform without having to queue for an automatic gate.
The extra flow capacity was useful.

Now you can't. It's not 'gated' in the sense that there are gates you can
get through; it's totally blocked.

I agree with your description of the geography.

You have to use the bypass lane,

Which jumps the queue/scrum of people heading from the central/eastern
part of the concourse towards the gates 0-5. Every man for himself, but
there's no operational need for a facility for queue-jumpers, given that
the barriers are inevitably creating such a queue.

which is not really wide enough for 2-way traffic of people dragging
their life's possessions on wheels.

That's much the same issue as the conflicts in the STP "room of
columns". It's not just the International pax, it's their luggage too.

Something needs to be done about it.

Bring back the numbered [lettered A, B etc iirc] queues (as a very short
term thing). Or turn the 0-5 barriers off until the whole inner
concourse is barriered including access from the new ticket hall.

--
Roland Perry

On Jan 17, 8:19*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 18:23:48 on
Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Paul Corfield remarked:

The exit route will be off the south end of the concourse as expected.
The footbridge and escalators will be for those using the upper level
of the new concourse. I took a little walk round and I think there
will a large circulating area between the buffer stops and exit
gateline. *While I take your point about the potential for mixed flows
I wonder if the new way of working will be any worse than people
pouring off trains on to a small jam packed concourse with people
simultaneously heading on to trains.

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards the
newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the number of
people filtering through the waiting crowds.

I didn't really spot that but then I was more looking for what's new
rather than what will disappear.

Although that begs the question of the waiting crowds. Years ago they
used to have queue "lanes" marked on the floor of the concourse and
people would more or less stand in lines waiting for their train to be
ready. Now it's just one chaotic scrum because no-one is told which
platform the train is leaving from until the very last minute.

I did notice people were congregating by a small destination display
near platform 8, which you can see as you come up from the tube,
rather than standing on the main concourse. I suppose there might be a
marginal sprinting advantage if your departure is from P6-8. I also
noticed that there was a fenced off area behind some of the buffer
stops - I assume this is related to some of the ticket gates being in
service (given comments from other posters in this thread).

It's been a long time since I used KX Mainline but can well recall the
old queue lanes. Always seemed a decent enough idea given the vast
numbers of people who wait for trains. The last time I caught a train
there I was caught up in a big delay with half the trains cancelled
which meant an absolute stampede once a platform was announced. I was
quite shocked at how aggressive people were at getting on the train
and then (almost) fighting for a seat (even in First Class). I can
understand why there might be problems in releasing the platform info
in such circumstances but there should not (IMO) be a delay in normal
circumstances.

Presumably they'll be trying to encourage people to wait on the new
concourse for the platform announcement, rather than filtering through
the barriers to the platform area and then waiting. That's the scheme at
StPancrasMML, assisted by a lack of platform information beyond the
barriers. Of course, what that does is create a long queue for the
barriers as soon as the platform is announced, with people increasingly
anxious that the train's going to leave without them.

I suspect you may be correct that that will be the tactic. However the
announcement of platforms / trains need to be in sufficient time to
allow people through the gates and then to reach their platform and
train. I can imagine they will have a riot on their hands if they hold
everyone back until 4 mins before departure when the train is on
platform 0. They seem to be able to manage Euston OK - I know there
are not automatic gates (for Virgin) but there is more often than not
(IMLE) a visual ticket inspection before you're allowed on the
platform. I know you can queue on the ramp but you still need a
proper time margin to get everyone through and for them to find their
carriage / seat.

I don't wish to debate the rights or wrongs of St Pancras. I would
merely comment that neither station is a green field site and
therefore there will inevitably be some compromises about how you deal
with flows when dealing with intensive train services and the related
floods of passengers.

The first set of escalators for the MML platforms should have been
turned through 90 degrees, to end near their ticket office. As it is,
the MML concourse is needlessly remote from that ticket office, the main
departure board (which seems a bit lost where it is at the moment) the
toilets, SPILL barriers and the Northern ticket hall for the tube. Even
if the rest of the design remained, that one small change would make
quite a difference.

I can see what you mean. I doubt anyone will want to contemplate such
changes to St Pancras given people have been "managing" with the
current layout for a number of years.

Kings Cross will be an interesting "experiment", because I can't think
of another big terminus where there's not a substantial concourse beyond
the buffers. I know they realise they have issues at Kings Cross with
persuading passengers toward the Piazza (doubtless vainly when it's
pouring with rain outside).

Indeed and we shall see what happens in due course when Network Rail /
East Coast / FCC have got used to how the public do / want to use the
place and how many complaints there are from people walking out into
April showers ;-) Let's hope all the ticket gates are reversible and
signage is switchable!

--
Paul C
via Google

In article ,
(John Salmon) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message ...

remarked:

One of the changes they've made in the last year or two (I can't say
exactly when) was to rope off a corridor across the old concourse in
front of the departure board. I suppose that directs people towards
the newish stairs down to the tube station, but it does reduce the
number of people filtering through the waiting crowds.

You have misunderstood the purpose of that corridor. If you look
carefully you can see that it was created because the route between the
halves of the train shed near the platform ends has been gated off so
there is otherwise no route to the barriers opposite platforms 0-4 from
the ends of the other platforms.

Hmm, why would you want to get to platforms 0-4 *from* platforms
5-8, without first standing around in the crowd waiting to see
which platform you want? Although that's a bit recursive, because
until the platform's announced you don't know you need to head for
p0-4.

I don't see much need for a "bypass" there for passengers catching
trains who happen to be near platform 8 when their number is
called, but it's heavily used by people leaving p0-4.

I agree with Roland's interpretation here - I mainly use that
'bypass' to exit from the lower-numbered platforms towards the Travel
Centre/newish underground entrance, and I think it was 'created' (or
'signed', to be more accurate) at around the same time as the 0-5
barriers became operational.

It allows cross-traffic which used to use the area across the platform ends
before a gate blocked the route.

Nitpick: the two sides are 0-5 and 6-8, not 0-4 and 5-8.

I couldn't recall the precise arrangement so I was trying not to be too
specific.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

I did notice people were congregating by a small destination display
near platform 8, which you can see as you come up from the tube,
rather than standing on the main concourse. I suppose there might be a
marginal sprinting advantage if your departure is from P6-8. I also
noticed that there was a fenced off area behind some of the buffer
stops - I assume this is related to some of the ticket gates being in
service (given comments from other posters in this thread).

The greater sprinting advantage is if one's train is from 9-11.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Has this finished already? I specifically looked for it this afternoon and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel centre? Where was/is it?

roy

In message , at 14:49:04
on Sun, 22 Jan 2012, Roy Badami remarked:
Has this finished already?

That would be consistent with it only being there a week, but there's
nothing in the announcement to hint at such a short period. Or perhaps
it's weekdays only?
--
Roland Perry

"Roy Badami" wrote in message
...
Has this finished already? I specifically looked for it this afternoon
and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel
centre? Where was/is it?

Rather ironic that you couldn't find it.

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."

On Jan 22, 8:49*pm, (Roy Badami) wrote:
Has this finished already? *I specifically looked for it this afternoon and could see no sign of any exhibition either near or in the travel centre? *Where was/is it?

As Roland has already said there is nothing in the press release to
indicate that the exhibition was only there for a short period of
time. In fact it rather suggests that a presence will be there until
the new ticket hall opens in 3 months time.

When I visited it was on the main KX concourse opposite one of the
entrances to the East Coast travel centre and in direct line of travel
if you walked in from the street beside WH Smith. It may just be a
weekday thing but that seems a bit pointless given there is a decent
amount of leisure travel through KX at weekends. It's those less
regular travellers who will need the info perhaps more than commuters
will, given the commuters will / should adapt to the new arrangements
very quickly.

--
Paul C
via Google

In article , Roland Perry
writes

Will have to visit the exhibition I suppose.

Nothing there today, so maybe it was just a week long thing.

Couldn't see the new concourse from Platform 8, it was all boarded off.
It had looked like the outside was fenced off too (but too cold to go
out and check again). So I don't know where the glimpses of the new
concourse are to be had.

The circulation concourse between the buffers and the tick barriers was
bigger than I remembered, and I tried to get some photos. Someone
scurried out of nowhere to tell me off for using flash, and the others
have terrible camera shake. However it does show a rather big brick
pillar in the middle of the walkway, that I hadn't noticed befo

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/KGX_co...nstruction.jpg

For orientation, the picture looks east, and shows the entire width of
the eastern section of the future concourse (with barriers in gaps in
the wall with the scaffolding against it). The grey fence will be gone,
and a row of barriers between the new ticket hall and the western larger
section of the concourse will be behind the photographer.
--
Roland Perry

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

The BBC visited a couple of days ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16813490

Tonight's Evening Standard has a shot looking towards the mezzanine floor.

Gives another idea of the scale of the whole thing, most of the pics I've
seen so far have been towards the office range...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...50m-rebuild.do

Paul S