On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:36:50AM +0000, d wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".

The key word "approach" should have told you that we're not there yet.

And this is obviously for values of "everyone" which deliberately
doesn't consider the vanishingly small population of digital refuseniks,
who will be economically and socially irrelevant just like those who
don't have a phone of any kind are.

--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

[OS X] appeals to me as a monk, a user, a compiler-of-apps, a
sometime coder, and an easily amused primate with a penchant
for those that are pretty, colorful, and make nice noises.
-- Dan Birchall, in The Monastery

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:40:50 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:36:50AM +0000, d wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".

The key word "approach" should have told you that we're not there yet.

And what makes you think we will get there? Just because smartphones are
the techno fashion du jour at the moment doesn't mean they will be in
10 years time. Something else will probably have come along by then to part
the drooling sheeple from their money.

And this is obviously for values of "everyone" which deliberately
doesn't consider the vanishingly small population of digital refuseniks,

You seem to be implying that not buying a smartphone is some kind of social
or political statement rather than the simple fact that some of us simply
don't need or want one and therefor don't see any reason to buy one. I don't
have a home surround sound system or the latest core i7 PC for the same
reason - does that also make me a "refusenik" in your eyes?

who will be economically and socially irrelevant just like those who

If you need to have a smartphone to be socially relevant then there's
something seriously wrong with your social life and probably social skills.
Though I imagine for anyone who suffers from aspergers or similar problems
they're a godsend.

B2003

On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:51:08AM +0000, d wrote:
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:40:50 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 08:36:50AM +0000, d wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
As we approach the point where everyone has a smart-phone, we might
Who is "everyone"? I don't, most of my family don't, a lot of my friends
don't. Don't confuse teenagers and hipsters with "everyone".
The key word "approach" should have told you that we're not there yet.
And what makes you think we will get there?

Simple economics. We are already at the point where nigh-on everyone
(91% of adults; 99% of people aged 25 to 34) has a mobile phone. The
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds), and even at their current prices they are eating into the
market for dumbphones. A great many people who have dumbphones would
prefer to have a smartphone but are prevented from having them by cost.
Once almost everyone can afford a smartphone, or they start being given
away "for free" with a phone contract, the cost of manufacturing
tiny numbers of dumbphones for the handful of weirdos who still want one
will increase because there will be no economies of scale.

Already a quarter of adults have a smartphone and half of all teenagers.

And this is obviously for values of "everyone" which deliberately
doesn't consider the vanishingly small population of digital refuseniks,
You seem to be implying that not buying a smartphone is some kind of social
or political statement rather than the simple fact that some of us simply
don't need or want one and therefor don't see any reason to buy one.

It won't be long before it's hard to buy a dumbphone. At which point,
yes, not having a smartphone will indeed be a statement.

This is obvious. If you try to buy a *really* dumb phone, of the sort
that was common a decade ago - a Nokia 6310i, for example - you just
can't. It doesn't matter that there's still a small market for them,
they're just not made any more.

I don't
have a home surround sound system

Nor do most people.

or the latest core i7 PC for the same
reason - does that also make me a "refusenik" in your eyes?

Not having a computer of any kind would.

who will be economically and socially irrelevant just like those who
If you need to have a smartphone to be socially relevant then there's
something seriously wrong with your social life and probably social skills.

Have you not noticed how many businesses and other organisations assume
that their customers and members have mobile phones and email? I have,
mostly because my mother is one of the refuseniks.

Being socially relevant has nothing whatsoever to do with your social
life or skills, and everything to do with how others wish to interact
with you. If you choose not to be able to interact and take part in
activities in ways that people think are normal and convenient, then
you are socially irrelevant. An awful lot of groups these days rely on
email to contact their members, ranging from the local chess club to
patient support groups and political parties. Therefore if you refuse
to have email, you are removing yourself from that part of society and
that social interaction. Mobile phones aren't there yet, but I expect
that they will be soon.

To take one example, the British Go Association http://britgo.org/
recently stopped publishing its newsletter on paper and posting it to
members, and now distributes it by email. There are a handful of
members who don't have email, but that handful was deemed to not be
important enough to justify the costs of catering to their choice of not
having email.

And to be bring us back to what started you off on your foolish Luddite
ranting - navigating public transport networks - would you like to guess
which are the top three categories of paid-for content/applications on
phones? They a
* games
* music
* travel

So aside from entertainment, finding your way around is the most
important thing that people do with their smartphones that you can't do
with a dumbphone. The people have spoken.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

EINE KIRCHE! EIN KREDO! EIN PAPST!

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:29:34 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds),

Depends. You can pick up some old symbian stuff for 90 quid but thats
about as low as it goes at the moment.

Once almost everyone can afford a smartphone, or they start being given
away "for free" with a phone contract, the cost of manufacturing

There are not being given away and they're not free as you well know or you
wouldn't have put it in quotes. Contracts cost a fortune and they get the
full retail price of the phone back and then some over the period.

tiny numbers of dumbphones for the handful of weirdos who still want one
will increase because there will be no economies of scale.

I think you'll find dumbphones are still pretty popular in many parts of
the world where basic communication, reliability and a long battery life is
more important than playing Angry Birds. Not only that, not everyone wants
to carry around a phone with the profile of a small brick. A lot of smartphones
are like going on a trip back to the early 90s in size.

Already a quarter of adults have a smartphone and half of all teenagers.

Got a link for that?

It won't be long before it's hard to buy a dumbphone. At which point,
yes, not having a smartphone will indeed be a statement.

Only in your mind. You seem to be unable to distinguish between a making
a statement and complete indifference.

or the latest core i7 PC for the same
reason - does that also make me a "refusenik" in your eyes?

Not having a computer of any kind would.

Why would it? Its quite possible to live without one. I couldn't because
I work in IT but I can quite see how others could.

with you. If you choose not to be able to interact and take part in
activities in ways that people think are normal and convenient, then

Facebook & twitter are not activities. Meeting down a pub or playing sports
is an activity. The former are poor facsimiles of a social life for losers
who don't actually have one.

And to be bring us back to what started you off on your foolish Luddite

Luddite? Having a smartphone seems to mean a lot to you, perhaps its a sort of
crutch or comfort blanket for some insecurities or inadequacies you have in
your social or professional life because it gives you the illusion of
connection. Either way you seem unable to comprehend why others may not give a
**** about owning an over priced hand held computer with no keyboard. Which is
your problem, not theirs.

which are the top three categories of paid-for content/applications on
phones? They a
* games

Don't care, I'm not 15.

* music

Don't care.

* travel

Can use a proper computer for that or visit a travel agents.
That really the best you've got?

with a dumbphone. The people have spoken.

No, you have spoken and I suspect your apparent addiction to tech like any
addiction makes your judgement unreliable at the best of times. If poking
and prodding your iToy all the time like a wired up lab rat makes you happy
then good for you. For others like me I'm afraid you come across as just a
little bit sad.

B2003

In article ,
d wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:29:34 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds),

Depends. You can pick up some old symbian stuff for 90 quid but thats
about as low as it goes at the moment.


10 seconds on amzazon found (I literally searched for android 3g
phone and picked, I think, the thrid option)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlocked-Qua...dp/B008ITLOB4/

Which is (just!) below a hundred quid. I expect some slightly more dedicated
searching will find something cheaper.

I think you'll find dumbphones are still pretty popular in many parts of
the world where basic communication, reliability and a long battery life is
more important than playing Angry Birds.

Indeed; I have one myself for the battery life and small size. And a
smartphone. Horses for courses, innit?



--
Mike Bristow

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:04:09 +0100
Mike Bristow wrote:
Which is (just!) below a hundred quid. I expect some slightly more dedicated
searching will find something cheaper.

For 2nd hand stuff almost certainly. For new stuff from a well known
manufacturer, maybe, maybe not.

Indeed; I have one myself for the battery life and small size. And a
smartphone. Horses for courses, innit?

Apart from not needing one the other main reason I don't have a smartphone is
size. I don't want to go back to a 1990s style brick in my pocket.

B2003

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 03:49:29PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:04:09 +0100 Mike Bristow wrote:
Indeed; I have one myself for the battery life and small size. And a
smartphone. Horses for courses, innit?
Apart from not needing one the other main reason I don't have a smartphone is
size. I don't want to go back to a 1990s style brick in my pocket.

Ah, so as well as obviously not having actually seen the sort of
navigation software you criticise so heavily, you've also not actually
seen a smartphone.

Is there anything else you'd like to demonstrate your ignorance about
for our amusement? Perhaps you could expound upon the contents of my
fridge, or the mating habits of the mice that live on the dark side
of the moon?

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

There is no one true indentation style,
But if there were K&R would be Its Prophets.
Peace be upon Their Holy Beards.

On 22/08/2012 14:04, d wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:29:34 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds),

Depends. You can pick up some old symbian stuff for 90 quid but thats
about as low as it goes at the moment.

So this article is a complete work of fabrication and lies:

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/08/2...ndroid_phones/

On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:30:04 +0100
Someone Somewhere wrote:
On 22/08/2012 14:04, d wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:29:34 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds),

Depends. You can pick up some old symbian stuff for 90 quid but thats
about as low as it goes at the moment.

So this article is a complete work of fabrication and lies:

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/08/2...ndroid_phones/

Fair enough, I was just going by what I'd seen in some phone shops
recently when the wife was looking for something.

B2003

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 01:04:30PM +0000, d wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:29:34 +0100 David Cantrell wrote:
price of manufacturing smartphones is dropping quickly (retail price,
unsubsidised, has already dropped from hundreds of pounds to tens of
pounds),
Depends. You can pick up some old symbian stuff for 90 quid but thats
about as low as it goes at the moment.

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/08/2...ndroid_phones/

The lowest in that list is 70 quid.

Once almost everyone can afford a smartphone, or they start being given
away "for free" with a phone contract, the cost of manufacturing
There are not being given away and they're not free as you well know or you
wouldn't have put it in quotes. Contracts cost a fortune and they get the
full retail price of the phone back and then some over the period.

So? This is no different from dumbphones.

Already a quarter of adults have a smartphone and half of all teenagers.
Got a link for that?

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2011/08/04...o-smartphones/

which are the top three categories of paid-for content/applications on
phones? They a
* games
Don't care, I'm not 15.

Nor are most people who play games.

* music
Don't care.

Whether you care is not important.

* travel
Can use a proper computer for that or visit a travel agents.
That really the best you've got?

The point is that this demonstrates that, contrary to your foolish
assertions, people find a smartphone to be useful for travel
information.

And don't you think it would be better to take a tiny pocket-sized
device on holiday instead of a "proper computer"?

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg
and egg whites, whisk, and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes.