d wrote:

Fast forward to the Jubilee Line extension: This one was much less
well planned, but did manage provide a useful route with some

Useful until it heads of to stratford pointlessly duplicating the DLR.

It provides a direct link from east to south London, starting from east

Which is probably used by no one. I suspect the vast majority of people
who
get on at stratford get off at canary wharf.

Not in my experience and I'm one of the many who use it for east to south
trips. Quite a lot get off at London Bridge or Waterloo whilst many others
travel further west. The same can be seen in reverse.

I'm sure it is useful to some, but it would have been a damn site more
useful
if it had opened up a whole new suburb rather than terminating somewhere
that already has more railway lines than it knows what to do with.

Lining up to such a major interchange is pretty useful already. What suburb
would you have wanted to open up instead? West Silvertown is somewhat
physically constrained and much of the rest of Newham had rail or tube or
DLR links already.

With 3
car trains I'm pretty sure the DLR would be quite able to cope with the
loading from Stratford in the rush hour.

Have you seen the size of the loadings at Stratford at that time?

If the tube builders 100 years ago
had thought the same way as the JLE route designers then half of north
london
wouldn't exist in its present form. Cockfosters? Who wants to go there ,
lets
send the piccadilly line to tottenham instead. Edgware? Nothing there,
we'll
terminate at Kilburn - good interchange with the Bakerloo! Etc.

At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than
breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE followed
suit by going where the demand was.

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

The emphasis certainly should be on joining up the dots. Unfortunately
the people who make the decisions seem to be totally unaware of how
that would benefit London. The second major failing of this Battersea scheme
is that is does not link up with other routes.

My particular obsession - an extension from Kennington to Clapham Junction
- would most definitely "join up the dots" as would other obvious - to practical
people - proposals like extending the Bakerloo Line to Peckham Rye and the
Victoria Line to Leytonstone.

Robin9 wrote:

Tim Roll-Pickering;134793 Wrote:


At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than

breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE
followed
suit by going where the demand was.



The emphasis certainly should be on joining up the dots. Unfortunately
the people who make the decisions seem to be totally unaware of how
that would benefit London. The second major failing of this Battersea
scheme
is that is does not link up with other routes.

My particular obsession - an extension from Kennington to Clapham
Junction
- would most definitely "join up the dots" as would other obvious - to
practical
people - proposals like extending the Bakerloo Line to Peckham Rye and
the
Victoria Line to Leytonstone.

You might want to see
http://www.londonreconnections.com/2...nsion-public-c
onsultation-details/ which quotes the Tfl documents and notes

"The associated consultation documents confirm that cost and the high
passenger levels already found on the Victoria Line are the reasons why
an interchange at Vauxhall is not being pursued. Future extension to
Clapham Junction is, however, acknowledged as a possibility and the
tunnel layout is designed to support this."

--
Mark

Thank you for that link. Very interesting and very encouraging. Even
more encouraging were the posts from various enthusiasts agreeing
that an extension to Clapham Junction was a much better idea.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 12:45:05 -0000
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Which is probably used by no one. I suspect the vast majority of people
who
get on at stratford get off at canary wharf.

Not in my experience and I'm one of the many who use it for east to south
trips. Quite a lot get off at London Bridge or Waterloo whilst many others
travel further west. The same can be seen in reverse.

Why would anyone use the jubilee from stratford to go west when they can
just get on the central line?

I'm sure it is useful to some, but it would have been a damn site more
useful
if it had opened up a whole new suburb rather than terminating somewhere
that already has more railway lines than it knows what to do with.

Lining up to such a major interchange is pretty useful already. What suburb
would you have wanted to open up instead? West Silvertown is somewhat

I already said more than once - Thamesmead.

physically constrained and much of the rest of Newham had rail or tube or
DLR links already.

There are these new fangled things called tunnels that solve that particular
issue.

If the tube builders 100 years ago
had thought the same way as the JLE route designers then half of north
london
wouldn't exist in its present form. Cockfosters? Who wants to go there ,
lets
send the piccadilly line to tottenham instead. Edgware? Nothing there,
we'll
terminate at Kilburn - good interchange with the Bakerloo! Etc.

At this stage the emphasis is largely on joining up the dots rather than

Why? The dots were already joined quite enough at stratford.

breaking new ground - the Victoria line kicked that off and the JLE followed
suit by going where the demand was.

Demand from who? By definition there won't be any demand from an area thats
not developed but sending a tube line there usually is the spur to that.
I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

B2003

Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the
Dome aka O2, regenerating Bermondsey and Canada Water, and regenerating the
Canning Town area. There were plans for a branch from North Greenwich to
Thamesmead (there may even be passive provision for a junction) but no
funding for this at the time. Now Thamesmead will do better, with the Abbey
Wood branch of Crossrail.

Peter

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:39 -0000
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the

The DLR had and has plenty of capacity mainly because it has a much more
frequent service.

funding for this at the time. Now Thamesmead will do better, with the Abbey
Wood branch of Crossrail.

You mean to the abbey wood station that already exists? Yes, I'm sure the
residents of thamesmead will be thrilled. Who'd want a tube line where you
live when you can have an old station with a new logo a mile away?

B2003

d wrote on 10 December 2012 12:34:47 ...
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:39 -0000
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the

The DLR had and has plenty of capacity mainly because it has a much more
frequent service.

Not true. The Jubilee from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 24 tph in the
peaks; the DLR from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 10 tph with
lower-capacity trains, and is limited by part of the route being
single-track.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On 10 Dec, 12:59, "Richard J." wrote:
wrote on 10 December 2012 12:34:47 ...

On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:26:39 -0000
"Peter Masson" wrote:
Boltar wrote

I'm sorry but terminating the JLE at stratford was down to nothing more
than
money or lack thereof, don't pretend there was any great plan.

The motivations for the JLE route were serving Canary Wharf from Waterloo,
serving Canary Wharf from Stratford (DLR did not have enough capacity), the

The DLR had and has plenty of capacity mainly because it has a much more
frequent service.

Not true. *The Jubilee from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 24 tph in the
peaks; the DLR from Stratford to Canary Wharf has 10 tph with
lower-capacity trains, and is limited by part of the route being
single-track.


The NLL could have been upgraded for longer, more frequent trains and
diverted under the river. An Interchange with a Jubilee extension to
Thamsmead would have been entirely possible.

If your idea had been adopted, the service via Silvertown to South London
would have been an extension of the current service between Stratford
and Richmond. Upgrading for longer trains would have meant platform
lengthening at all stations. An attractive idea but very expensive.