In message , Richard J.
writes
Kat wrote:
In message , Richard
J. writes

"Kat" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Richard J. writes

"Kat" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Richard J. writes

"Kat" wrote in message
...
Whether you and I enjoy it or not, Graffiti is a valid form of
visual expression.

Oh dear. Criminal damage is valid? In what sense?

Read the URL I posted.

I did. It talked about "the illicit nature of graffiti", and said
"This illegal expression constitutes vandalism to the larger
society". There was also an interesting analysis of the
phenomenon, but nowhere did the word "valid" appear.


Why should it; it was my choice of word but look at the last
paragraph.

"Graffiti can be understood as concrete manifestations of personal
and communal ideologies which are visually striking, insistent, and
provocative; as such, they are worthy of the continued attention of
art historians, social scientists, and policy makers alike."

Seems like a fair summing up of its validity to me...

The fact that something is worthy of attention doesn't make it
valid. You said it was "a valid form of visual expression".
Frankly I find that a shocking and irresponsible remark for an LU
employee to make. Perhaps we're using different meanings of
"valid". I thought you meant legitimate or acceptable.

Then you weren't following my argument very closely. One of the
meanings of validity, is "capable of being justified" and in that
sense, graffiti is a valid art form.

You're still saying in effect that criminal damage and vandalism are
capable of being justified, which is where our argument started. Not much
point in continuing it, I think, but perhaps I should remind you of the
words of your Managing Director: "Graffiti is intimidating and attacks
everybody's quality of life - it is psychological mugging." (LU press
release, 19 Nov 2003.)

In the contract I signed, there was nothing that said I should give up
my right to independent thought.
You still misunderstand the point I was making.
I came into this thread in a response to someone who said that graffiti
is NOT art; nothing to do with its legality (in the sense of vandalism
or criminal damage)
I have explained, at length and in spite of some highly patronising
comments, that it can be considered an art form.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If that doesn't suit your understanding of art, then tough!
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Marc Brett wrote in message . ..
On 30 Jan 2004 06:48:04 -0800, (trainspotter)
wrote:

what do you all think of graffiti?

Whenever I see it on my local streets, I reach for this:

http://streetfaults.tfl.gov.uk/newfault.shtml

I complain, and the graffiti gets mopped up (or the bollards repaired,
or the street lights replaced, etc.). The feedback is nonexistant so
I can't tell if it was *my* online complaint that triggered the
repairs. In any event it's a good tool for improving the mental
health of the public. Part of the problem with graffiti is that it
enrages people and they feel powerless to fight back. Here is a tool
that seems to even the odds a bit.

why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on the
train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'? fun!
graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from boring out
red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.

"trainspotter" wrote in message
om...
Marc Brett wrote in message
. ..
On 30 Jan 2004 06:48:04 -0800, (trainspotter)
wrote:

what do you all think of graffiti?

Whenever I see it on my local streets, I reach for this:

http://streetfaults.tfl.gov.uk/newfault.shtml

I complain, and the graffiti gets mopped up (or the bollards repaired,
or the street lights replaced, etc.). The feedback is nonexistant so
I can't tell if it was *my* online complaint that triggered the
repairs. In any event it's a good tool for improving the mental
health of the public. Part of the problem with graffiti is that it
enrages people and they feel powerless to fight back. Here is a tool
that seems to even the odds a bit.

why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on the
train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'? fun!
graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from boring out
red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.
--------------------
It's **** & you are a piece of **** too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
...
On 30 Jan 2004 06:48:04 -0800, (trainspotter)
wrote:

what do you all think of graffiti?

Whenever I see it on my local streets, I reach for this:

http://streetfaults.tfl.gov.uk/newfault.shtml

I complain, and the graffiti gets mopped up (or the bollards repaired,
or the street lights replaced, etc.

I reported some defective lights using this system in August last year.

TfL sent the report to the borough, despite the fact that the lights were
clearly on a TfL road. The borough passed the report back a few days later.

The lights still haven't been fixed and TfL say that they don't know
what's happening with this fault.

My own borough usually fixes defective lights within a week.


Robin

(trainspotter) wrote the following in:
om

why moan about graffiti?

Because it looks ****.

ither ignore it and read the paper on
the train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'?
fun!

Almost as fun as that brilliant game, "How many times have I been pked
in the eye?", where you count the number of times someone has poked you
in the eye.

graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from
boring out red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.

I prefer red, white and blue to red white and blue with meaningless
squiggles on it.

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
The Hutton Report is a whitewash! Long live the BBC!

Crime is confusing.

why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on the
train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'? fun!
graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from boring out
red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.

The outside of your house is boring and your car probably is too. I think
I'll go and throw a bucket of pink paint over it.
--
To reply direct, remove NOSPAM and replace with railwaysonline
For Train Information, The Latest News & Best photos around check out the
Award Winning Railways Online at http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk
"Hating Thames Trains since 2003"

In message , Kat
writes

Most of it is boring rubbish but occasionally I've seen a train
(usually H&C) come in and thought "Wow, that really is worth looking at"
I suppose it like weeds really, they're just flowers in the wrong
place..

You're prolly surrounded by it all day long and it no longer shocks or
disturbs you - but for the rest of us it still does.

--
congokid
Good restaurants in London? Number one on Google
http://congokid.com

"The Bloke Next Door" Bloke@NextDoor wrote in message ...
"trainspotter" wrote in message
om...
Marc Brett wrote in message
. ..
On 30 Jan 2004 06:48:04 -0800, (trainspotter)
wrote:

what do you all think of graffiti?

Whenever I see it on my local streets, I reach for this:

http://streetfaults.tfl.gov.uk/newfault.shtml

I complain, and the graffiti gets mopped up (or the bollards repaired,
or the street lights replaced, etc.). The feedback is nonexistant so
I can't tell if it was *my* online complaint that triggered the
repairs. In any event it's a good tool for improving the mental
health of the public. Part of the problem with graffiti is that it
enrages people and they feel powerless to fight back. Here is a tool
that seems to even the odds a bit.

why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on the
train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'? fun!
graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from boring out
red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.
--------------------
It's **** & you are a piece of **** too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha, whatever you do is **** aswell.

"Joe" wrote in message ...
why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on the
train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'? fun!
graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up from boring out
red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.

The outside of your house is boring and your car probably is too. I think
I'll go and throw a bucket of pink paint over it.

like i say... you think of it like that but it isn't nothing like
that. no graffiti writer would think of throwing a 'bucket of paint'
over someones property (house, car etc). get the facts right before
trying to look smug.

(trainspotter) wrote the following in:
om

"Joe" wrote in message
...
why moan about graffiti? either ignore it and read the paper on
the train or play a game called 'whose tag can i see most of'?
fun! graffiti on the outside of the trains brighten them up
from boring out red, blue and white tube trains. eurghhh.

The outside of your house is boring and your car probably is too.
I think I'll go and throw a bucket of pink paint over it.

like i say... you think of it like that but it isn't nothing like
that. no graffiti writer would think of throwing a 'bucket of
paint' over someones property (house, car etc). get the facts
right before trying to look smug.

Well you said that graffiti brightens up trains. Seeing as graffiti on
trains is almost all done in black, I don't see how that can possibly
be true. Get the facts right before trying to look smug.

--
message by Robin May, enforcer of sod's law.
The Hutton Report is a whitewash! Long live the BBC!

Crime is confusing.