On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 02:38:02PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:26:10 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
Things get more complicated because my father is a BR pensioner, so
they
both get priv rate travel on the tube. I'm guessing that that won't
be
available via ticket machines!
I see no reason it should not be.

Given how seldom tickets will actually be inspected by real people, I
assume that the risk of revenue loss would be too great. Priv rate
tickets are quarter price IIRC.

Furthermore, the number of legitimate users of such tickets is minute.
TfL staff/families/pensioners get staff Oyster cards IIRC. I don't think
current TOC staff are eligible unless they are one of the few left who
used to work for BR. So it's only a handful of ex-BR TOC staff, and BR
pensioners, who qualify. Not enough legitimate users to make the risk of
fare evasion worth it, I'd think.

I expect that my parents will have to apply via BR Pensions for some
kind of Oyster card if they want to keep their cheap tube travel. I
doubt they'll think it worth the bother though, given that most of their
journeys in London are merely as part of a cross-London train journey
and so already paid for at a NR station ticket office.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

All children should be aptitude-tested at an early age and,
if their main or only aptitude is for marketing, drowned.

In article ,
(David Cantrell) wrote:

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 02:38:02PM +0000, Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:26:10 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
Things get more complicated because my father is a BR pensioner, so
they both get priv rate travel on the tube. I'm guessing that that
won't be available via ticket machines!
I see no reason it should not be.

Given how seldom tickets will actually be inspected by real people, I
assume that the risk of revenue loss would be too great. Priv rate
tickets are quarter price IIRC.

Furthermore, the number of legitimate users of such tickets is minute.
TfL staff/families/pensioners get staff Oyster cards IIRC. I don't think
current TOC staff are eligible unless they are one of the few left who
used to work for BR. So it's only a handful of ex-BR TOC staff, and BR
pensioners, who qualify. Not enough legitimate users to make the risk of
fare evasion worth it, I'd think.

A priv entitlement smartcard would greatly reduce the evasion risk if the
card had to be presented to the ticket machine to even show the priv
ticketing option.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:10:43 +0000, David Cantrell
wrote:
Given how seldom tickets will actually be inspected by real people,
I
assume that the risk of revenue loss would be too great. Priv rate
tickets are quarter price IIRC.

Or you have barriers reject them, so they would be subject to a
manual barrier check.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 23:30:07 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:11:09 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:59:44 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport
networks need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for
the mainline - and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well
- better to have them out showing how to use the machine next time.

I generally agree with you but there are lots of tickets that can
currently only be bought from a ticket office. As an example can I get
a £2 travelcard for a child travelling with me while I use my Gold Card
from any machines?

Can one get any child tickets from machines? It didn't use to be possible.

Yes you can but I believe you have to press an acknowledgement button
so you "accept" you are buying a child ticket. This is demonstrate
"intent" in the event of an adult travelling on a child ticket and
then being caught in a revenue check. TfL would be able to trace back
the ticket purchase details.

Similarly you can buy railcard discounted tickets such as the Gold
Card discounted ODTC - I have actually bought one! Not sure about the
child £2 ticket but I would expect it to be available subject to the
same process as I set out above.

I tried today and couldn't get the machine to sell me one. It's not
generally a problem since accompanied children travel free on TfL/LU
but if you are also using National Rail they need a ticket. When/if
the Moorgate ticket office closes it will not be possible to buy the
ticket I want before getting on the train. Of course I don't need that
ticket until I get past Finsbury Park. One might say this isn't a TfL/LU
problem but I can't buy the discounted tickets from First Capital Connect
machines either.

On 27/11/2013 21:17, Paul Corfield wrote:

I believe it is the case that TOC staff do receive privilege rate
travel on NR and foreign railways after a qualifying period. I think
it is also the case that some TOCs have reciprocal arrangements with
TfL for priv travel on LU regardless of how long the employee has
worked for the TOC - i.e. not an issue dating back to BR times.

Friends who joined TOCs (but not AIUI Network Rail; and I don't know
anyone at a freight or open access company) post-privatisation seem to
get FIP boxes, but it seems to be only used by people who are "in the
know", rather than something absolutely everyone uses.

(as in, many people don't actually know about it, rather than just
because they are the kind of weird people who don't spend their holidays
bashing foreign railways)

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 30/11/2013 20:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 27/11/2013 21:17, Paul Corfield wrote:

I believe it is the case that TOC staff do receive privilege rate
travel on NR and foreign railways after a qualifying period. I think
it is also the case that some TOCs have reciprocal arrangements with
TfL for priv travel on LU regardless of how long the employee has
worked for the TOC - i.e. not an issue dating back to BR times.

Friends who joined TOCs (but not AIUI Network Rail; and I don't know
anyone at a freight or open access company) post-privatisation seem to
get FIP boxes, but it seems to be only used by people who are "in the
know", rather than something absolutely everyone uses.

(as in, many people don't actually know about it, rather than just
because they are the kind of weird people who don't spend their holidays
bashing foreign railways)


Possibly not promoted to staff because it costs the TOC money?

On 01/12/2013 18:18, Mizter T wrote:

On 30/11/2013 20:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 27/11/2013 21:17, Paul Corfield wrote:

I believe it is the case that TOC staff do receive privilege rate
travel on NR and foreign railways after a qualifying period. I think
it is also the case that some TOCs have reciprocal arrangements with
TfL for priv travel on LU regardless of how long the employee has
worked for the TOC - i.e. not an issue dating back to BR times.

Friends who joined TOCs (but not AIUI Network Rail; and I don't know
anyone at a freight or open access company) post-privatisation seem to
get FIP boxes, but it seems to be only used by people who are "in the
know", rather than something absolutely everyone uses.

(as in, many people don't actually know about it, rather than just
because they are the kind of weird people who don't spend their holidays
bashing foreign railways)


Possibly not promoted to staff because it costs the TOC money?

Does it? Obviously there is the admin, but it surely can't be that
expensive and probably can't easily be got rid of because of the
assorted international agreements. I assume the losses from foreign
railwaymen riding up and down on peak trains for free can't be all that
great.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 30/11/2013 20:44, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 27/11/2013 21:17, Paul Corfield wrote:

I believe it is the case that TOC staff do receive privilege rate
travel on NR and foreign railways after a qualifying period. I think
it is also the case that some TOCs have reciprocal arrangements with
TfL for priv travel on LU regardless of how long the employee has
worked for the TOC - i.e. not an issue dating back to BR times.

Friends who joined TOCs (but not AIUI Network Rail; and I don't know
anyone at a freight or open access company) post-privatisation seem to
get FIP boxes, but it seems to be only used by people who are "in the
know", rather than something absolutely everyone uses.

(as in, many people don't actually know about it, rather than just
because they are the kind of weird people who don't spend their holidays
bashing foreign railways)


Possibly not promoted to staff because it costs the TOC money?

Isn't that what joining the union is for?

tim

Theo Markettos writes:

Neil Williams wrote:
In most other countries I expect they would be unavailable and it
would just be a "tourist tax". Or a city tax would be charged on
hotel rooms and a free ticket issued for everyone staying.

I wonder if, say, a £3 per day flat-rate fee on hotel rooms and give
everyone a free Z1-2 travelcard would do the trick - not everyone will use
it but it solves the problem for the rest.

You are assuming everyone staying in a hotel is an occasional
tourist. Many are regular visitors who, like me, already have an oyster
card and stay overnight after a concert or a show. They will not take
kindly to having to pay again for public transport.

Phil

In message , at 19:44:35 on Mon, 2 Dec 2013,
Phil remarked:
In most other countries I expect they would be unavailable and it
would just be a "tourist tax". Or a city tax would be charged on
hotel rooms and a free ticket issued for everyone staying.

I wonder if, say, a £3 per day flat-rate fee on hotel rooms and give
everyone a free Z1-2 travelcard would do the trick - not everyone will use
it but it solves the problem for the rest.

You are assuming everyone staying in a hotel is an occasional
tourist. Many are regular visitors who, like me, already have an oyster
card and stay overnight after a concert or a show. They will not take
kindly to having to pay again for public transport.

And in another place:

"The 24-hour tube will boost weekend departures from Heathrow and hit
companies selling holiday 'add-ons', claims an operator.

Proposals for a 24-hour Tube service on Friday and Saturday nights from
2015 was announced by Transport for London last month.

But loveholidays.com claims 'extras' like airport parking or overnight
hotels are likely to suffer, as demand will drop.

It also believes that Heathrow will become the preferred airport for
passengers, as it is the only London/South East airport on a Tube line.

Al Francis from loveholidays.com says: "People will be more willing to
take flights at 'unsociable' times because the 24-hour Tube service will
mean it will be easier to get across London to and from the airport.

"The losers will be 'holiday extras'. With a 24-hour Tube service,
people are less likely to need airport parking or book an airport
hotel."
--
Roland Perry