On 21/11/2013 20:59, Neil Williams wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:18:33 +0000, Mizter T wrote:

As I said earlier, I think CPCs will likely change the ticketing
picture significantly, but they're certainly not some magic solve-all
solve-all I wonder if the Tube sans ticket offices proposal is perhaps
a bit before its time

I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport networks
need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for the mainline -
and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well - better to have
them out showing how to use the machine next time.

The reason why I said that is because contactless cards are still
somewhat new on the scene, and there are still many with a (standard) UK
bank account who don't have them yet. If the 'close the Tube ticket
offices' plan is predicated on widespread CPC usage, then holding a CPC
also needs to be widespread. That said, the picture will inevitably
change over the next year and a half.

On 21/11/2013 21:38, Scott wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:54:12 +0100, Neil Williams
[snip]
I don't think the Tube needs ticket offices, rather it needs staff on
the floor helping with things. German systems are often near enough
completely unstaffed. So I broadly support the idea.

I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets; also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?


There's no suggestion whatsoever that Oyster cards are to disappear from
the scene. So Oyster cards should continue to be available from shops as
they are now - and they're already available for vending from Tube
ticket machines (at least one machine in each station).

I can't help but think that a lack of Tube ticket offices at main NR
termini and other arrival points (Heathrow, VCS etc) just isn't very
visitor friendly though - however much TfL might try and push Visitor
Oyster cards to visitors before they arrive in London, people are just
going to turn up and expect to sort it on arrival. (CPCs may be a
solution for some of those visitors, but not all.)

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 14:17:20 -0600,
wrote:
Are they going to introduce Oyster history printing facilities at ticket
machines then? That can only be obtained from ticket offices now.

Which is another trick missed with Oyster - such services should have
been machine only from day one.

I agree. You can see the details on screen but not get a permanent record.
The ticket office printers also fade pretty quickly so are far from
permanent.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 21/11/2013 21:38, Scott wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:54:12 +0100, Neil Williams
[snip]
I don't think the Tube needs ticket offices, rather it needs staff on
the floor helping with things. German systems are often near enough
completely unstaffed. So I broadly support the idea.

I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets; also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

There's no suggestion whatsoever that Oyster cards are to disappear
from the scene. So Oyster cards should continue to be available from
shops as they are now - and they're already available for vending
from Tube ticket machines (at least one machine in each station).

Really? I've never noticed one at East |Putney. And the ticket stop outside
shuts long before the end of service.

I can't help but think that a lack of Tube ticket offices at main NR
termini and other arrival points (Heathrow, VCS etc) just isn't very
visitor friendly though - however much TfL might try and push Visitor
Oyster cards to visitors before they arrive in London, people are
just going to turn up and expect to sort it on arrival. (CPCs may be
a solution for some of those visitors, but not all.)

Agree. I found Berlin a little bewildering for visitors to get going on the
U & S Bahn.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:38:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:
I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets;
also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

You can now do both of these at ticket machines.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:51:38 +0000, Mizter T
wrote:
The reason why I said that is because contactless cards are still
somewhat new on the scene, and there are still many with a
(standard) UK
bank account who don't have them yet. If the 'close the Tube ticket
offices' plan is predicated on widespread CPC usage, then holding a
CPC
also needs to be widespread. That said, the picture will inevitably
change over the next year and a half.

Cards typically have a 3 year expiry, so I would expect after 3 years
near enough all cards to be so equipped.

Neil

--
Neil Williams. Use neil before the at to reply.

In message , at 19:21:18 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
But my understanding is that they are refusing some foreign/prepay cards
because of problems in the back-office processing, rather than because
there's a technical issue with the cards themselves.

Fair point. I don't know what it is that's deficient when it comes to
some foreign issued contactless cards.

The problem is probably setting up a relationship with the foreign
banks, dealing with things like over-limit credit cards and exhausted
pre-pay cards. We know buses aren't online. It's a bit like the old
"Electron/Solo" restriction.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 21:51:38 on Thu, 21 Nov
2013, Mizter T remarked:
As I said earlier, I think CPCs will likely change the ticketing
picture significantly, but they're certainly not some magic solve-all
solve-all I wonder if the Tube sans ticket offices proposal is perhaps
a bit before its time

I think it's about 15 years after its time. City transport networks
need simple, automated ticketing. Ticket offices are for the mainline -
and TBH I see a reduced need for them there as well - better to have
them out showing how to use the machine next time.

The reason why I said that is because contactless cards are still
somewhat new on the scene, and there are still many with a (standard)
UK bank account who don't have them yet. If the 'close the Tube ticket
offices' plan is predicated on widespread CPC usage, then holding a CPC
also needs to be widespread. That said, the picture will inevitably
change over the next year and a half.

For people without a contactless credit card (and last time I was
involved in consumer credit issues it was said that about half the
population was fundamentally un-credit-worthy for whatever reason) then
there's always a pre-pay card.

Here's an article about that actually mentions use on London Underground
(so perhaps that answers my earlier question, unless the author means
buying tickets from a machine):

http://bankinnovation.net/2011/03/tr...at-us-payment-
habits/
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
07:53:28 on Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Neil Williams
remarked:
Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

You can now do both of these at ticket machines.

And ticket machines, once a quick way to buy a ticket, often have long
queues, especially those where a visitor spends ages essentially
pressing buttons at random.
--
Roland Perry

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:38:08 +0000, Scott
wrote:
I take it Oyster cards will still be available at retail outlets; also
the ability to add value to them. Will visitors and others you be
able to buy an Oyster card at NR main termini, either a the (NR)
ticket office or at a shop there, and at Heathrow etc?

You can now do both of these at ticket machines.

You can only add less than £5 to Oyster at a ticket stop. I don't use the
tube enough to add that much at a time.

--
Colin Rosenstiel