On 2014-10-26 14:13:11 +0000, Recliner said:

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change,
mainly in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 14:36:31 on Sun, 26
Oct 2014, Neil Williams remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change,
mainly in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

Really? Traction control is all about putting the power down to the
wheels with the best grip. Do cars really implement this by applying the
brakes to those wheels which you don't want power transferred to?
--
Roland Perry

On 26/10/2014 14:36, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-26 14:13:11 +0000, Recliner said:

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was
mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change, mainly
in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

Neil
Indeed - my 2009 Hyundai Coupe certainly doesn't have traction control.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:13:11 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-26 14:13:11 +0000, Recliner said:

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change, mainly
in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

See
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:36:31 on Sun, 26 Oct
2014, Neil Williams remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change,
mainly in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

Really? Traction control is all about putting the power down to the
wheels with the best grip. Do cars really implement this by applying the
brakes to those wheels which you don't want power transferred to?

Yes, and they cut the power, too. See
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13609388

In message

, at 09:51:20 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

That's not traction control; it seems to be Nanny saying "don't go round
a corner on opposite lock".

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?
--
Roland Perry

In message

, at 09:55:37 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

I don't think so, only ABS which has been mandatory since about 2002 I
think. However if you fit one, the other is a very small change,
mainly in software, as they both work by individually braking wheels.

Really? Traction control is all about putting the power down to the
wheels with the best grip. Do cars really implement this by applying the
brakes to those wheels which you don't want power transferred to?

Yes, and they cut the power, too. See
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13609388

ABS-style braking is the opposite of traction control. The former
automates the stopping of vehicles, that latter the acceleration.
--
Roland Perry

On 2014-10-26 14:45:21 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Really? Traction control is all about putting the power down to the
wheels with the best grip. Do cars really implement this by applying
the brakes to those wheels which you don't want power transferred to?

Yes (and by doing so this uses the differential[1] to move some power
to the other wheel from the spinning wheel, unless you brake that as
well). Unless you had individual traction motors and electric
transmission it would be horribly expensive to do otherwise.

[1] With a non-locking differential of the type used on a car, if one
wheel spins all power is lost. So you stop it spinning by braking it,
and the power can go to the other wheel which isn't spinning.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:51:20 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

That's not traction control; it seems to be Nanny saying "don't go round
a corner on opposite lock".

ASC is a more sophisticated form of traction control: if a wheel starts to
spin, it's braked. I can't remember when I first had it on my cars, but it
was some time well before the end of the last century.


Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can continue
to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can steer both
ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

No, it says it's mandatory on all new cars, even older designs, from this
week:
"All new car models launched from now on will have to be fitted with
electronic stability control ( ESC ) as part of new European safety
regulations. The technology, which prevents skidding during sudden
manoeuvres, will become mandatory for existing model ranges in Europe from
31 October 2014."

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.