Recliner wrote:

It's only a matter of time before all cars are automatics: with more
ratios, they're more fuel efficient and perform better than manual
transmissions. In fact, many high performance and almost all Eco cars are
now auto-only. The manual gearbox is going the way of the manual choke,
carburettor, starting handle, etc. It's almost 30 years since I switched to
automatics, and I wouldn't dream of going back.

Finding a US rental car with a manual transmission in the US is near impossible
outside of certain specialist vehicles. This also reflects the private vehicle
market as even cars offered with supposed "manual" transmissions are really
automatics with paddle shift switches.

In the UK, it seems to be quite different and I'm not sure why.

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 05:07:58 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

It's only a matter of time before all cars are automatics: with more
ratios, they're more fuel efficient and perform better than manual
transmissions. In fact, many high performance and almost all Eco cars are
now auto-only. The manual gearbox is going the way of the manual choke,
carburettor, starting handle, etc. It's almost 30 years since I switched to
automatics, and I wouldn't dream of going back.

Finding a US rental car with a manual transmission in the US is near impossible
outside of certain specialist vehicles. This also reflects the private vehicle
market as even cars offered with supposed "manual" transmissions are really
automatics with paddle shift switches.

Isn't it still possible to buy at least some sporty cars with
traditional stick shifts in the US? But, certainly, the mainstream
and rental markets abandoned the stick shift a long time ago. I wonder
how many American drivers would be able to use a clutch pedal?


In the UK, it seems to be quite different and I'm not sure why.

Autos are usually more expensive, and traditionally had higher fuel
consumption. As cars and fuel are already much more expensive in the
UK than the US, I suppose this is a significant factor with the small
cars that are more popular here than in the US. But with the pressure
for cleaner, more economical cars, auto transmissions will become the
norm here, too, as computers can control the (larger number of) ratios
better.

On 26/10/2014 11:32, Recliner wrote:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 05:07:58 -0600, Arthur Conan Doyle
wrote:

Recliner wrote:

It's only a matter of time before all cars are automatics: with more
ratios, they're more fuel efficient and perform better than manual
transmissions. In fact, many high performance and almost all Eco cars are
now auto-only. The manual gearbox is going the way of the manual choke,
carburettor, starting handle, etc. It's almost 30 years since I switched to
automatics, and I wouldn't dream of going back.

Finding a US rental car with a manual transmission in the US is near impossible
outside of certain specialist vehicles. This also reflects the private vehicle
market as even cars offered with supposed "manual" transmissions are really
automatics with paddle shift switches.

Isn't it still possible to buy at least some sporty cars with
traditional stick shifts in the US? But, certainly, the mainstream
and rental markets abandoned the stick shift a long time ago. I wonder
how many American drivers would be able to use a clutch pedal?


In the UK, it seems to be quite different and I'm not sure why.

Autos are usually more expensive, and traditionally had higher fuel
consumption. As cars and fuel are already much more expensive in the
UK than the US, I suppose this is a significant factor with the small
cars that are more popular here than in the US. But with the pressure
for cleaner, more economical cars, auto transmissions will become the
norm here, too, as computers can control the (larger number of) ratios
better.


The issue highlighted upthread of the potentially astronomical cost of
fixing an automatic if it goes wrong is also a consideration.

On 2014-10-26 11:07:58 +0000, Arthur Conan Doyle said:

In the UK, it seems to be quite different and I'm not sure why.

Europe in general, not just the UK. I would think a few reasons...
- Old style fluid-coupling slushboxes were less fuel efficient; fuel
has always been expensive in the UK and Europe, while in the US it is
fairly cheap.
- Old style boxes were considered unreliable (and probably were).
- Old style boxes were sometimes a little clunky and sapped power, an
issue when for fuel consumption reasons we don't, unlike the US, put 4+
litre V8s in everything.

None of these are really true now - modern boxes are efficient and
reliable - and it's easier to build an automatic hybrid than a manual
one (though there are a few manual parallel hybrids on the market). So
I think we will increasingly see a move to automatics. There is the
"with a manual you get better control" thing, but most drivers drive
not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so that isn't a
massive concern to them.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2014-10-26 11:32:55 +0000, Recliner said:

Autos are usually more expensive, and traditionally had higher fuel
consumption. As cars and fuel are already much more expensive in the
UK than the US, I suppose this is a significant factor with the small
cars that are more popular here than in the US. But with the pressure
for cleaner, more economical cars, auto transmissions will become the
norm here, too, as computers can control the (larger number of) ratios
better.

TBH I think it will go one further than that - there will be a move to
series hybrids, which have electric transmission just like a
diesel-electric locomotive, with added regenerative braking to charge
the batteries. No ratios at all needed then (other than one fixed one,
obviously).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 2014-10-26 12:32:48 +0000, Mizter T said:

The issue highlighted upthread of the potentially astronomical cost of
fixing an automatic if it goes wrong is also a consideration.

True, though if a manual box goes wrong that's also pretty pricey these
days. And some modern autos are closer in design to an H-gate box with
automatic shifters and clutches. Certainly Stagecoach have this type
on most of their newer coaches, as it is more fuel efficient than a
fluid coupling.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message , at 13:15:22 on Sun, 26
Oct 2014, Neil Williams remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:15:22 on Sun, 26 Oct
2014, Neil Williams remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

Recliner wrote:

Isn't it still possible to buy at least some sporty cars with
traditional stick shifts in the US? But, certainly, the mainstream
and rental markets abandoned the stick shift a long time ago. I wonder
how many American drivers would be able to use a clutch pedal?

I'm sure there are still some available, especially at the higher price ranges.
Manual transmissions used to be standard on the lowest priced "econoboxes." Not
at all today though. As you say - I doubt very many people in the US could drive
a stick today outside someone who drove an HGV.

In message

, at 09:13:11 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

The best vehicle I ever had in snow had the opposite of traction
control: A Series 2 SWB Landrover with the diff-locks on. That drove
like it was on railway lines. Although once you got onto a less slippery
road the lines went straight-ahead only!
--
Roland Perry