In message

, at 09:13:11 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

The best vehicle I ever had in snow had the opposite of traction
control: A Series 2 SWB Landrover with the diff-locks on. That drove
like it was on railway lines. Although once you got onto a less slippery
road the lines went straight-ahead only!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:13:11 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
There is the "with a manual you get better control" thing, but most
drivers drive not for the experience but for getting from A to B, so
that isn't a massive concern to them.

Unless it also has traction control I'd prefer a manual to an automatic
in slippery (and icy) conditions. That's another cultural difference
between the USA and elsewhere - they will buy a huge 4wd SUV as a family
runabout without batting an eyelid.

Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

In message

, at 09:51:20 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

That's not traction control; it seems to be Nanny saying "don't go round
a corner on opposite lock".

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 09:51:20 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:
Don't all modern cars have traction control? I thought it was mandatory in
the EU.

If it is, then it's passed me by. Seems a bit of an overkill for an
entry-level Ford Focus. And of course we don't all buy new cars (my
current one is an "R" reg).

Ok, I'm five days early:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/electron...n-new-eu-cars/

That's not traction control; it seems to be Nanny saying "don't go round
a corner on opposite lock".

ASC is a more sophisticated form of traction control: if a wheel starts to
spin, it's braked. I can't remember when I first had it on my cars, but it
was some time well before the end of the last century.


Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can continue
to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can steer both
ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

No, it says it's mandatory on all new cars, even older designs, from this
week:
"All new car models launched from now on will have to be fitted with
electronic stability control ( ESC ) as part of new European safety
regulations. The technology, which prevents skidding during sudden
manoeuvres, will become mandatory for existing model ranges in Europe from
31 October 2014."

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.

In message

, at 10:19:53 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner
remarked:

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.

Do Homologation Specials no longer exist?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at 10:19:53 on Sun, 26 Oct 2014, Recliner remarked:

How does this initiative affect Rally cars?

They're not standard cars.

Do Homologation Specials no longer exist?

Even if they do, they'd just turn off the ASC, as you can in every
performance car. Such cars wouldn't have a hidden, more subtle, ASC in the
background, as many ordinary cars do.

On 2014-10-26 15:02:09 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

Most drivers do not have that skill, so the overall effect will be
beneficial. Same with ABS, because most drivers aren't quick enough
with the pedal to do the same thing manually (and in any case no car
has separate single wheel manual braking control, so ABS can pretty
much always do it better).

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Neil Williams wrote:
On 2014-10-26 15:02:09 +0000, Roland Perry said:

Only applies to cars "launched", it says. So at least people can
continue to make cars (launched previously) where a good driver can
steer both ends (the front with the wheel, the back with the foot).

Most drivers do not have that skill, so the overall effect will be
beneficial. Same with ABS, because most drivers aren't quick enough with
the pedal to do the same thing manually (and in any case no car has
separate single wheel manual braking control, so ABS can pretty much always do it better).

Most cars allow the ASC to be switched off, though some manufacturers still
keep a milder version turned on in the background. My car has an ASC button
next to the Sport button (used to change the Auto shift pattern and lock
out sixth gear). By default, ASC is on and Sport off. But I don't think any
cars allow ABS to be turned off.