On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:19:27 -0000, "Henry"
wrote:

Sheer curiosity following a conversation with someone as we drove through
Croydon last night.

Is there a logic to the numbering of bus routes in the London area, such a
1-100 means one thing, 101-200 means something else, or are they random,
maybe loosely based upon a logical system of long ago that has fallen into
disuse?

If you search Google, you will find various previous threads on this
subject, including contributions from myself - search for Bassom

In 1924 (for those with long memories) an act was passed which gave
regulatory powers to the Ministry of Transport within (very roughly)
25 miles if Charing Cross. One of the effects of this was to put
into place a system called the "Bassom" system after the
commissioner of Police for the Metropolis, A E Bassom.

This system required every route variation, however slight, to have
its own number (and not a suffix letter as previously and
subsequently). Only buses travelling the whole length of a route
would be carry the base number. Every short working would have a
suffix letter. This meant that, for example, the main service on
route 11 was numbered 11e as the full route was only served on
Sundays.

It also initiated a system whereby routes were as follows:

1 to 199 - London General Double Deck services in the Central Area
210 to 299 - London General Single Deck Services in the Central Area
301 to 399 - Country routes northern area
401 to 499 - Country routes - southern area
501 upwards - independents.

The Bassom system was found to be too complicated and the suffix
system was abandoned after a few years. My archives don't give me a
precise date, I'm afraid. But if Ken Glazier still reads this
group, I'm sure he can give chapter and verse and correct me if I
have anything else wrong.

In 1933 the LPTB was formed, and the system gradually modified, so
in the immediate post-war period you had:

1 to 199 - Central double deck
200 to 282(*) - Central single deck
283 to 299 - Night buses
301 to 399 - Country buses north
401 to 499 - Country buses south
501 to 699 - Trolleybuses
701 to 727 - Green Line Coaches

(*) I'm not sure what the highest numbered single deck service was
before the distinction became abolished.

Before long, LT ran out of numbers. The distinction between single
and double deck services was abolished and night buses allocated N83
to N99. The whole of the block from 1 to 299 became available for
Central buses. Also, in the country, additional blocks were
allocated - 801 to 849 Country bus north and 851 to 899 Country bus
south, although neither of these ever came close to being fully
filled. The highest ever numbered London Transport service under
this system was 854 (or 854a if you're a pedant). At this point, I
always have to point out that the appearance of route 864a in Green
Rover literature of the early 1960s was merely a misprint.

The system remained virtually intact for several years after the
country area was hived off on 1970, but has now almost completely
disappeared unless you know where to look (i.e. many routes in Kent
are still numbered in the 400s, and there is the single remaining
former Green Line route, 726).

--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

Bus Route Numbering
From: Bill Hayles

great posting.

"Bill Hayles" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:19:27 -0000, "Henry"

1 to 199 - London General Double Deck services in the Central Area

How does this fit in with the 101 which I regularly rode in the early
1950s and possibly the late 40s (memory beginning to fail me here)?

Last time I looked,and not very long ago, it was still running from
The George Wanstead to Woolwich Ferry, although with route variations
at the southern end and served by a terrible low floored bone shaker
that I vowed never to go on again.

It wasn't listed on an enthusiast's web list of old route numbers but
I saw one subsequent to that.
--
Malcolm

enthusiast's web list of old route numbers but

Have you got the www please.

"Proctor46" wrote in message
...
enthusiast's web list of old route numbers but

Have you got the www please.

Putting 'London bus routes' into www.google.com will give you
several - and I found the one-oh-one this time.
--
Malcolm

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:57:32 -0000, "Malcolm Knight"
wrote:

"Bill Hayles" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:19:27 -0000, "Henry"

1 to 199 - London General Double Deck services in the Central Area

How does this fit in with the 101 which I regularly rode in the early
1950s and possibly the late 40s (memory beginning to fail me here)?
How does it not? The 101 was double deck.

--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:11 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:


The biggest difference since the 1960s is the almost complete abolition of
routes with suffix letters, e.g. 77A, one of the few left. At one time
there was a 77C.


There still is. It runs as a schools route. Probably the only schools
route not in the 6xx series.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:33:54 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:11 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

The biggest difference since the 1960s is the almost complete abolition of
routes with suffix letters, e.g. 77A, one of the few left. At one time
there was a 77C.

There still is. It runs as a schools route. Probably the only schools
route not in the 6xx series.


77C was renumbered 670 fairly recently (within the last 18 months, I
think).

"Bill Hayles" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:57:32 -0000, "Malcolm Knight"
wrote:

"Bill Hayles" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:19:27 -0000, "Henry"

1 to 199 - London General Double Deck services in the Central
Area

How does this fit in with the 101 which I regularly rode in the
early
1950s and possibly the late 40s (memory beginning to fail me here)?
How does it not? The 101 was double deck.

Wanstead (Essex when the route was started) is the Central Area of
London. Really? You surprise me.
--
Malcolm

In message , Malcolm
Knight writes

Wanstead (Essex when the route was started) is the Central Area of
London. Really? You surprise me.

It was well inside London Transport's central area which, as Bill
pointed out earlier, covered much of what was to become Greater London.

My 1937 Central Area map shows that the 101 used to be extended even
beyond Wanstead (to Lambourne End, east of Chigwell) on Sundays. I don't
know when the route started, but it was in pre-London Transport days as
the 101 is shown on my 1922 London General Bus Map - at that time the
Sunday extension was numbered 101A.

Central area routes in that direction went out as far as Epping,
Chipping Ongar (123 from Romford) and Brentwood (86 from Mile End, now
cut back to Stratford-Romford only).

There was often considerable intermingling of central ("red") and
country ("green") buses in the outer fringes. Where I grew up, in
Belvedere, we had a choice of red buses (Woolwich-Erith) and green buses
(to Bexleyheath, Dartford and even Sevenoaks) passing the house.

We used to catch the 101 from North Woolwich when visiting relatives in
Essex - I can also remember it being a real bone-shaking service,
although I wonder if some of that was the state of the roads through the
docks in the 1950s.

--
Paul Terry