On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 11:44:44 PM UTC+1, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
What nowadays is the maximum allowed width for a road vehicle in
ordinary service, such as a refuse collection vehicle, a removals van,
or a skip lorry?

How much total width should be available for a qualified but not
unusually talented driver in such a vehicle to reverse along, on the
straight?

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. 拯merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.

The answer to the first half is readily available on the web. 2.55 metres excluding mirrors or 2.6 metres for a refrigerated vehicle.

The second half will need an experienced lorry driver or instructor to answer. With a car there is always a risk the wheel being turned slightly when the driver turns to look over his shoulder.

Piatkow wrote:
The answer to the first half is readily available on the web. 2.55
metres excluding mirrors or 2.6 metres for a refrigerated vehicle.

Quite.

The second half will need an experienced lorry driver or instructor
to answer. With a car there is always a risk the wheel being turned
slightly when the driver turns to look over his shoulder.

Well a retired HGV driver tells me it all depends. Eg is it a summer's
day or dark and ****ing down? With or without a *trusted* guide? Rigid
or artic and 40' trailer? And what's the cost of failure? Eg is it
between trees or fences or the wall(s) of Grade I listed mansions? And
don't forget you need an area to get straight before entering your
choke.

If you are looking to get someone to deliver/collect, ask the firm in
question. And possibly check their insurance.




--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

In uk.transport.london message , Thu, 30 Jul
2015 13:52:48, Robin posted:

Piatkow wrote:
The answer to the first half is readily available on the web. 2.55
metres excluding mirrors or 2.6 metres for a refrigerated vehicle.

Quite.

That question was to winnow out "answers" from the more profoundly
ignorant.


The second half will need an experienced lorry driver or instructor
to answer. With a car there is always a risk the wheel being turned
slightly when the driver turns to look over his shoulder.

Well a retired HGV driver tells me it all depends. Eg is it a summer's
day or dark and ****ing down?

During the South of England working day, with some artificial light
after sunset.

With or without a *trusted* guide?

With whoever the driver brings.

Rigid
or artic and 40' trailer?

An ordinary lorry, nothing worse than a removals pantechnicon or a skip
lorry. I much doubt whether an artic could reach the location without
wreaking havoc.

And what's the cost of failure? Eg is it
between trees or fences or the wall(s) of Grade I listed mansions?

Well, part of one side holds up my spare bedroom's wall and floor. But
that is the second part of the narrow section. It is definitely nothing
like a Grade 1 mansion.

At present, exactly the width of a skip lorry away from that wall, the
other side of the drive is an untidy middle-aged hedge, embedded deep
within which is a wire mesh fence which must be on the property
boundary. The driver of the skip lorry declined to bulldoze through in
reverse.

And
don't forget you need an area to get straight before entering your
choke.

I did not.

If you are looking to get someone to deliver/collect, ask the firm in
question. And possibly check their insurance.

The situation is that the property management has, over the years,
allowed all of the hedges to grow wider rather than ensuring that they
are trimmed to an appropriate width. Other arrangements are being made
for the original clearance task. But, now that the management has
accepted that Something Must Be Done, I want to specify the necessary
width that the management must include in its instructions to the chosen
hedge-cutting workforce.


--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05.
Website http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc. : http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/ - see in 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.

Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.transport.london message , Thu, 30
Jul 2015 13:52:48, Robin posted:

Piatkow wrote:
The answer to the first half is readily available on the web. 2.55
metres excluding mirrors or 2.6 metres for a refrigerated vehicle.

Quite.

That question was to winnow out "answers" from the more profoundly
ignorant.


The second half will need an experienced lorry driver or instructor
to answer. With a car there is always a risk the wheel being turned
slightly when the driver turns to look over his shoulder.

Well a retired HGV driver tells me it all depends. Eg is it a
summer's day or dark and ****ing down?

During the South of England working day, with some artificial light
after sunset.

which leaves open the possibility of 17:00 in December with driving rain
and "some artificial light" - let me guess, casting shadows and/or
causing glare?

With or without a *trusted* guide?

With whoever the driver brings.

You may not have noticed but "driver's mates" are rare these days.
Mainly used where delivery inside is required - eg white goods, carpets.
I don't think I've ever seen a skip driver with one.

Rigid
or artic and 40' trailer?

An ordinary lorry, nothing worse than a removals pantechnicon or a
skip lorry. I much doubt whether an artic could reach the location
without wreaking havoc.

My former HGV driver delivered furniture in the distant past so pointed
out they tend to have very light bodies which are easily affected by
wind and also bounce around so another variable is the surface -
potholes? camber? kerbs?

And what's the cost of failure? Eg is it
between trees or fences or the wall(s) of Grade I listed mansions?

Well, part of one side holds up my spare bedroom's wall and floor.
But that is the second part of the narrow section. It is definitely
nothing like a Grade 1 mansion.

Yerrbut but the cost of contact could be high - including the driver's
job

At present, exactly the width of a skip lorry away from that wall, the
other side of the drive is an untidy middle-aged hedge, embedded deep
within which is a wire mesh fence which must be on the property
boundary. The driver of the skip lorry declined to bulldoze through
in reverse.

By "exactly the width" do you include the mirrors any driver needs in
order to reverse without a trusted guide?

Either way I'm not surprised. Apart from anything else, how was he
supposed to get out and check if he thought there was a problem?

And
don't forget you need an area to get straight before entering your
choke.

I did not.

If you are looking to get someone to deliver/collect, ask the firm in
question. And possibly check their insurance.

The situation is that the property management has, over the years,
allowed all of the hedges to grow wider rather than ensuring that they
are trimmed to an appropriate width. Other arrangements are being
made for the original clearance task. But, now that the management
has accepted that Something Must Be Done, I want to specify the
necessary width that the management must include in its instructions
to the chosen hedge-cutting workforce.

Given you don't know who will be driving, when, in what vehicle I would
doubt anyone who gives you a firm answer. If you ask delivery firms you
may get a guide. My source tells me his last firm specified 3.2m for
access when he was driving their rigid 18t trucks but he'd do smaller if
he felt it safe to do so. You'll find smaller widths cited for smaller
trucks. But be careful to distinguish between gate width and road
width. A narrow gate doesn't present the same problems.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

In uk.transport.london message , Sat, 1 Aug
2015 08:51:28, Robin posted:

Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.transport.london message , Thu, 30
Jul 2015 13:52:48, Robin posted:

Piatkow wrote:
The answer to the first half is readily available on the web. 2.55
metres excluding mirrors or 2.6 metres for a refrigerated vehicle.

Quite.

That question was to winnow out "answers" from the more profoundly
ignorant.


The second half will need an experienced lorry driver or instructor
to answer. With a car there is always a risk the wheel being turned
slightly when the driver turns to look over his shoulder.

Well a retired HGV driver tells me it all depends. Eg is it a
summer's day or dark and ****ing down?

During the South of England working day, with some artificial light
after sunset.

which leaves open the possibility of 17:00 in December with driving rain
and "some artificial light" - let me guess, casting shadows and/or
causing glare?

Well lit; a fitting near the drive outside each end, a fitting on the
wall in question (probably above mirror height) and whatever shines
through nearby domestic windows. No relevant shadows, no significant
glare.


With or without a *trusted* guide?

With whoever the driver brings.

You may not have noticed but "driver's mates" are rare these days.
Mainly used where delivery inside is required - eg white goods, carpets.
I don't think I've ever seen a skip driver with one.

Rigid
or artic and 40' trailer?

An ordinary lorry, nothing worse than a removals pantechnicon or a
skip lorry. I much doubt whether an artic could reach the location
without wreaking havoc.

My former HGV driver delivered furniture in the distant past so pointed
out they tend to have very light bodies which are easily affected by
wind and also bounce around so another variable is the surface -
potholes? camber? kerbs?

The surface is flat, level, and good; better than our local streets.


And what's the cost of failure? Eg is it
between trees or fences or the wall(s) of Grade I listed mansions?

Well, part of one side holds up my spare bedroom's wall and floor.
But that is the second part of the narrow section. It is definitely
nothing like a Grade 1 mansion.

Yerrbut but the cost of contact could be high - including the driver's
job


At present, exactly the width of a skip lorry away from that wall, the
other side of the drive is an untidy middle-aged hedge, embedded deep
within which is a wire mesh fence which must be on the property
boundary. The driver of the skip lorry declined to bulldoze through
in reverse.

By "exactly the width" do you include the mirrors any driver needs in
order to reverse without a trusted guide?

The width of the back of the lorry - the driver offered it up to the
gap, and it fitted as a cork in a bottle. We can disregard one mirror,
which will be above the hedge.


Either way I'm not surprised. Apart from anything else, how was he
supposed to get out and check if he thought there was a problem?

Over the hedge !!! But he seemed to be able to see the driver's side
rear corner well enough from the cab.


And
don't forget you need an area to get straight before entering your
choke.

I did not.

If you are looking to get someone to deliver/collect, ask the firm in
question. And possibly check their insurance.

The situation is that the property management has, over the years,
allowed all of the hedges to grow wider rather than ensuring that they
are trimmed to an appropriate width. Other arrangements are being
made for the original clearance task. But, now that the management
has accepted that Something Must Be Done, I want to specify the
necessary width that the management must include in its instructions
to the chosen hedge-cutting workforce.

Given you don't know who will be driving, when, in what vehicle I would
doubt anyone who gives you a firm answer. If you ask delivery firms you
may get a guide. My source tells me his last firm specified 3.2m for
access when he was driving their rigid 18t trucks but he'd do smaller if
he felt it safe to do so. You'll find smaller widths cited for smaller
trucks. But be careful to distinguish between gate width and road
width. A narrow gate doesn't present the same problems.

No gate, though one pseudo-gatepost. The road is narrow; but when the
double yellow lines are working, a professional backwards-driver should
have no real trouble. The narrow part is more than a lorry-length from
the road.

If the hedge is reduced to 30 cm from the property boundary, the gap
should be almost 3.2 m clear; I shall ask for that.

Thanks,

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
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