Turning London orange
 

e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:27:37 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:29:59 +0100
" wrote:
On 21.09.16 21:31, Recliner wrote:
TfL's grand vision for turning London's suburban overground services
into
the Overground:


http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/21/london...very-different
6143328/

I got an idea. Let's just turn the entire network, from Penzance to
Wick, orange.

Indeed. Its really not very well thought out if this is an official TfL
mock up. And what the obsession with TfL taking over all the south london
lines is god knows. Anyone who thinks the unions will give them an easy
time
because they're a public corp rather than a TOC has obviously been living
in a
cave for the last 20 years.

--
Spud


The seem to think that they can magic up slots to provide a 10 minute
frequency on every route

Exactly, but Mr Kahn might make it happen. And, as you say below:

whilst this might work on the routes that terminate inside (or just outside)
of the London "Zone", this is not going to work for the routes which carry
main line services to the coast.

Living on the Portsmouth Direct, as one does, this does not bode well.
We need improved frequencies. That could come with the conversion of
Waterloo International and a grade separated junction at Woking. But,
NOT if Mr Kahn is going to take a big chunk of the paths out of
Waterloo for his Metro Service.

Who is this mysterious Mr 'Kahn'?

Turning London orange
 

On 2016\09\24 09:50, Recliner wrote:
e27002 aurora wrote:

Living on the Portsmouth Direct, as one does, this does not bode well.
We need improved frequencies. That could come with the conversion of
Waterloo International and a grade separated junction at Woking. But,
NOT if Mr Kahn is going to take a big chunk of the paths out of
Waterloo for his Metro Service.

Who is this mysterious Mr 'Kahn'?

No-one knows, but everyone knows he's bent!

Turning London orange
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 19:50:29 on Fri, 23 Sep 2016, Recliner
remarked:

while the unions are indulging in incessant strikes and sickies on
Southern that

Southern just want their pay cheque. The policy (and the hit on the
fares basket) are down to the DfT.

simply wants to change the role of train guards, with no loss of jobs
or conditions.

Southern are doing what the DfT tell them. Wait till the new SWT franchise
for the same there.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Turning London orange
 

On 24/09/2016 09:48, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:41:48 +0100, "
wrote:

On 22.09.16 20:00, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 22.09.16 16:48, Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

wrote in message ...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:29:59 +0100
" wrote:
On 21.09.16 21:31, Recliner wrote:
TfL's grand vision for turning London's suburban overground services
into
the Overground:


http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/21/london...very-different
6143328/

I got an idea. Let's just turn the entire network, from Penzance to
Wick, orange.

Indeed. Its really not very well thought out if this is an official TfL
mock up. And what the obsession with TfL taking over all the south london
lines is god knows. Anyone who thinks the unions will give them an easy
time
because they're a public corp rather than a TOC has obviously been living
in a
cave for the last 20 years.

--
Spud


The seem to think that they can magic up slots to provide a 10 minute
frequency on every route

whilst this might work on the routes that terminate inside (or just outside)
of the London "Zone", this is not going to work for the routes which carry
main line services to the coast

I don't think their vision extends that far. TfL wants to take over the
stopping metro routes that run a little outside the zones (to places like
Dartford), not all the way to the coast.

Is there not a plan, however, for the TfL Empire to take over the
Thameslink lime out to Brighton?

Not that I'm aware of, and not according to the news report. Do you have a
link?

No, I thought that I read it on this group. IIRC, it was more of a
long-term plan, rather than anything around the corner.

When the West, North, South, and East London Lines, along with the
Watford DC service transitioned to the London Overground, the change
was so worthwhile.

In the 1960s I first "discovered" the North London line and watched
its painful decline. But, the investment in new infrastructure the
linking up of the North and East London Lines, the improved customer
environment was SO, SO welcome.

You do realise that in your terms, London Overground is a nasty
socialist organisation that can't do anything right?



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Turning London orange
 

On 24/09/2016 09:50, Recliner wrote:
e27002 aurora wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:27:37 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:29:59 +0100
" wrote:
On 21.09.16 21:31, Recliner wrote:
TfL's grand vision for turning London's suburban overground services
into
the Overground:


http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/21/london...very-different
6143328/

I got an idea. Let's just turn the entire network, from Penzance to
Wick, orange.

Indeed. Its really not very well thought out if this is an official TfL
mock up. And what the obsession with TfL taking over all the south london
lines is god knows. Anyone who thinks the unions will give them an easy
time
because they're a public corp rather than a TOC has obviously been living
in a
cave for the last 20 years.

--
Spud


The seem to think that they can magic up slots to provide a 10 minute
frequency on every route

Exactly, but Mr Kahn might make it happen. And, as you say below:

whilst this might work on the routes that terminate inside (or just outside)
of the London "Zone", this is not going to work for the routes which carry
main line services to the coast.

Living on the Portsmouth Direct, as one does, this does not bode well.
We need improved frequencies. That could come with the conversion of
Waterloo International and a grade separated junction at Woking. But,
NOT if Mr Kahn is going to take a big chunk of the paths out of
Waterloo for his Metro Service.

Who is this mysterious Mr 'Kahn'?


Kahn't imagine…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Turning London orange
 

wrote:
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 19:50:29 on Fri, 23 Sep 2016, Recliner
remarked:

while the unions are indulging in incessant strikes and sickies on
Southern that

Southern just want their pay cheque. The policy (and the hit on the
fares basket) are down to the DfT.

simply wants to change the role of train guards, with no loss of jobs
or conditions.

Southern are doing what the DfT tell them. Wait till the new SWT franchise
for the same there.

The DfT will certainly want DCO on SWT, but it's harder to force on a TOC
that's financially vulnerable to strikes. That's why it's playing hardball
with SN, as the DfT takes the revenue risk, and can permit GTR to run a
reduced service without penalty.

I'm wondering how many SN guards have already been moved across to the new
OBS role. Presumably if they strike, the trains can keep running?

Turning London orange
 

wrote in message
...
In article , (Tony
Dragon) wrote:

On 22-Sep-16 4:27 PM, tim... wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:29:59 +0100
" wrote:
On 21.09.16 21:31, Recliner wrote:
TfL's grand vision for turning London's suburban overground services
into the Overground:


http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/21/london...k-very-differe
nt-6143328/

I got an idea. Let's just turn the entire network, from Penzance to
Wick, orange.

Indeed. Its really not very well thought out if this is an official
TfL
mock up. And what the obsession with TfL taking over all the south
london lines is god knows. Anyone who thinks the unions will give them
an easy time because they're a public corp rather than a TOC has
obviously been living in a cave for the last 20 years.

The seem to think that they can magic up slots to provide a 10 minute
frequency on every route

whilst this might work on the routes that terminate inside (or just
outside) of the London "Zone", this is not going to work for the routes
which carry main line services to the coast

So they are going to increase the frequency of the Epsom, Kingston,
Chhessington & Hampton Court lines.

Where are the extra paths going to come from through Wimbledon?

Crossrail 2 will divert a lot of such traffic into a new tunnel.

not during this Mayor's tenure

tim



--
Colin Rosenstiel

Turning London orange
 

tim... wrote:

wrote in message
...
In article , (Tony
Dragon) wrote:

On 22-Sep-16 4:27 PM, tim... wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:29:59 +0100
" wrote:
On 21.09.16 21:31, Recliner wrote:
TfL's grand vision for turning London's suburban overground services
into the Overground:


http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/21/london...k-very-differe
nt-6143328/

I got an idea. Let's just turn the entire network, from Penzance to
Wick, orange.

Indeed. Its really not very well thought out if this is an official
TfL
mock up. And what the obsession with TfL taking over all the south
london lines is god knows. Anyone who thinks the unions will give them
an easy time because they're a public corp rather than a TOC has
obviously been living in a cave for the last 20 years.

The seem to think that they can magic up slots to provide a 10 minute
frequency on every route

whilst this might work on the routes that terminate inside (or just
outside) of the London "Zone", this is not going to work for the routes
which carry main line services to the coast

So they are going to increase the frequency of the Epsom, Kingston,
Chhessington & Hampton Court lines.

Where are the extra paths going to come from through Wimbledon?

Crossrail 2 will divert a lot of such traffic into a new tunnel.

not during this Mayor's tenure

True, and probably not during the next one's, either.

Turning London orange
 

Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 23/09/2016 15:45, Recliner wrote:

wrote:
[...]
Is there not a plan, however, for the TfL Empire to take over the
Thameslink lime out to Brighton?

Not that I'm aware of, and not according to the news report. Do you
have a
link?

No, I thought that I read it on this group. IIRC, it was more of a
long-term plan, rather than anything around the corner.

It's certainly not a plan, and not even an aspiration as far as I'm
aware.
The aim is to take over suburban stopping services that run entirely or
mainly in the GLA. The London mayor aims to deliver better, more
coordinated local services to local voters.


Was there not someone suggesting that TfL management could be drafted in
to try and sort out the slow-motion train wreck that is Southern/GTR?

It was political pestering

I'd give you a million to one that the mayor's idea of "sorting it out" is
giving into union demand immediately - he is a socialist (fsvo) after all.

Yes, the mayor did generously offer to sort out GTR for the DfT, but I
think his 'solution' would be just as you say.

However, it has to be said that TfL did get rid of the guards on all LO
routes, and is currently eliminating the 300 platform attendants from Boris
buses, in both cases without strikes.


The LO DOO was, IIRC, agreed many many years ago (possibly even BR days)
but not implemented until recently - presumably because the unions had
agreed it they couldn't protest.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Turning London orange
 

Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Recliner wrote:
tim... wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 23/09/2016 15:45, Recliner wrote:

wrote:
[...]
Is there not a plan, however, for the TfL Empire to take over the
Thameslink lime out to Brighton?

Not that I'm aware of, and not according to the news report. Do you
have a
link?

No, I thought that I read it on this group. IIRC, it was more of a
long-term plan, rather than anything around the corner.

It's certainly not a plan, and not even an aspiration as far as I'm
aware.
The aim is to take over suburban stopping services that run entirely or
mainly in the GLA. The London mayor aims to deliver better, more
coordinated local services to local voters.


Was there not someone suggesting that TfL management could be drafted in
to try and sort out the slow-motion train wreck that is Southern/GTR?

It was political pestering

I'd give you a million to one that the mayor's idea of "sorting it out" is
giving into union demand immediately - he is a socialist (fsvo) after all.

Yes, the mayor did generously offer to sort out GTR for the DfT, but I
think his 'solution' would be just as you say.

However, it has to be said that TfL did get rid of the guards on all LO
routes, and is currently eliminating the 300 platform attendants from Boris
buses, in both cases without strikes.


The LO DOO was, IIRC, agreed many many years ago (possibly even BR days)
but not implemented until recently - presumably because the unions had
agreed it they couldn't protest.

Even on Goblin?