On 2016-10-18 14:38:42 +0000, said:

Hackney carriage drivers have meters to keep them honest of course. One
reason why licensed hire cars in Cambridge have meters.

The habit of refusing to use them seems particularly popular late at
night in MK. And they *all* refuse, so you can't just get in the one
behind. And the Council has no interest in removing their licences for
doing so.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

On 18.10.16 17:15, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-10-18 14:30:43 +0000, d said:

A program is only non tamperable until someone finds a way to tamper
with it.
And of course you have to be happy for a company like Uber to have all
your
details. Personally I'd rather not give mine to such a slimey operator.

My experience is that Uber is orders of magnitude less "slimey" than a
great many taxi drivers, both of private hire and of Hackney carriages
outside London.

The Hackney carriage drivers in Milton Keynes are particularly
disreputable. Anyone with any sense ignores them and uses one of the
private hire operators who behave much better.

Neil

That, unfortunately, is my experience of Hackney carriage drivers in
London.

I had a particularly bad experience with one a few years back. He was
rude and swearing about how all of London is being ruined, spoke poorly
about immigrants and people of colour.

He was also rude when I paid him. When I get out, I told him that it was
very poor service, after which he started to get extremely angry and
yelled at me not to speak to him that way, and that he was going to get
me, etc. etc.

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On 2016-10-18 14:38:42 +0000, said:

Hackney carriage drivers have meters to keep them honest of course. One
reason why licensed hire cars in Cambridge have meters.

The habit of refusing to use them seems particularly popular late at
night in MK. And they *all* refuse, so you can't just get in the one
behind. And the Council has no interest in removing their licences
for doing so.

When I was a Cambridge city councillor we had a good enforcement team and
good relations with the taxi and hire car trade on most things. We certainly
wouldn't have stood for that within the city.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2016\10\18 12:19, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:37:37 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:49:55 +0100
David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:34:29 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:
Lots of noise and blocked traffic when I walked past yesterday in Southwark.
Anyone know what they're protesting about this week? Is it Uber, fares, or
they just don't like TfL in general?

There was a leaflet picture tweeted at
https://twitter.com/blacktaxicab/sta...30762549383168

Some of it sounds reasonable - if true, which is a big if - but others...

Cutting Taxi earnings by up to five percent, on card transactions.

I bet thats the card companies skimming their commission and nothing to do
with TfL.

I'm not sure if it has happened already or not but TfL want the fare
paid to be the same regardless of cash or card with no surcharge.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...y-london-taxis


That has been the case since, I think, April 2016.

wrote in message ...
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:02:33 +0100
"tim..." wrote:
"David Walters" wrote in message
I'm not sure if it has happened already or not but TfL want the fare
paid to be the same regardless of cash or card with no surcharge.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/pr...yor-and-tfl-co
firm-card-and-contactless-payments-will-be-accepted-by-london-taxis

That's not unreasonable, but CC charges are not 5%

They're 0% in most shops.

The point of discussion is the charges to the seller, not the buyer.

The cabbies argument is that *they* will lose 5% because that is what the CC
companies charge them and TfL are asking them to agree to a "contract"
forbidding CC surcharges to customers.

My point was that the CC companies *don't charge them 5%.

tim

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:34:29 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Lots of noise and blocked traffic when I walked past yesterday in
Southwark.
Anyone know what they're protesting about this week? Is it Uber, fares, or
they just don't like TfL in general?

They want the world to stand still, for regulation to remain as it has
done since they gained their monopoly, for technological process to be
banned and for TfL to be their "bestest ever friend in the whole wide
world" so taxi drivers can not suffer the consequences that anyone
whose job or trade has been forcibly changed by progress has had to
do. In short TfL and the Mayor should do what the taxi drivers
f*ckin' tell them to do.

Ironic really when you consider the general political slant of many
taxi drivers. You'd imagine they'd be against protectionism, would
love innovation and would be swashbuckling supporters of competition.

I have a bit of sympathy for them but not engaging with the world as
it is rther than how they wish it was is a rather stupid approach to
take.

I agree

Arguing that they shouldn't have to compete with a competitor who structures
his business in a way that facilitates tax evasion (yes, I said evasion) is
one thing (not suggesting that Uber evades tax, but ISTM that the casual
relationship that they have with drivers enables them to do so, if they are
so minded)

Arguing that they shouldn't have to compete with a "technology" based
routeing system instead on having to do "the knowledge", is just plain
Ludditeism. It's for the customer to decide what system they prefer (and
are prepared to pay for), not the regulators.

tim

On 2016\10\22 10:04, tim... wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 08:34:29 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Lots of noise and blocked traffic when I walked past yesterday in
Southwark.
Anyone know what they're protesting about this week? Is it Uber,
fares, or
they just don't like TfL in general?

They want the world to stand still, for regulation to remain as it has
done since they gained their monopoly, for technological process to be
banned and for TfL to be their "bestest ever friend in the whole wide
world" so taxi drivers can not suffer the consequences that anyone
whose job or trade has been forcibly changed by progress has had to
do. In short TfL and the Mayor should do what the taxi drivers
f*ckin' tell them to do.

Ironic really when you consider the general political slant of many
taxi drivers. You'd imagine they'd be against protectionism, would
love innovation and would be swashbuckling supporters of competition.

I have a bit of sympathy for them but not engaging with the world as
it is rther than how they wish it was is a rather stupid approach to
take.

I agree

Arguing that they shouldn't have to compete with a competitor who
structures his business in a way that facilitates tax evasion (yes, I
said evasion) is one thing (not suggesting that Uber evades tax, but
ISTM that the casual relationship that they have with drivers enables
them to do so, if they are so minded)

Arguing that they shouldn't have to compete with a "technology" based
routeing system instead on having to do "the knowledge", is just plain
Ludditeism. It's for the customer to decide what system they prefer
(and are prepared to pay for), not the regulators.

... except that cars stopped in, say, Mercer Street while the driver says
"K L A R K U N W E L ... I am not finding it in my sattienav" will bring
the entire city to a halt. In fact, if you try moving a vehicle anywhere
near Trafalgar Square at midnight on a Friday, you will see the area is
already at a halt because of so many minicabs waiting for a ping.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On 2016-10-18 14:38:42 +0000, said:

Hackney carriage drivers have meters to keep them honest of course. One
reason why licensed hire cars in Cambridge have meters.

The habit of refusing to use them seems particularly popular late at night
in MK. And they *all* refuse, so you can't just get in the one behind.
And the Council has no interest in removing their licences for doing so.


If they refuse to use the meter is the passenger able to refuse to pay the
fare?

The de-regulated (or, more properly, re-regulated) taxis in Dublin have to
provide a printed receipt from the the meter. If the driver tells you they
can't print a receipt (and I have had a few that did this) you're perfectly
entitled to tell them you can't pay the fare. BTW, a standard Uber taxi has
to operate in Dublin under exactly the same rules as a licensed taxi, which
is why Uber hasn't really caught on there.

Personally, I think it's about time the London taxi/cab rules were
re-written to provide a level-playing field where
- all drivers operate under a common license
- no distinction between vehicles hailed on the street, picked up at a rank
or pre-booked
- all vehicles metered with printed receipts
- no special vehicles required, other than an incentive to provide a minimum
number of wheelchair adapted vehicles.
- common (and sensible, given the use of sat-nav) level of 'knowledge' and
language skill requirements for drivers.

The above (which AIUI is how the industry works in Dublin) would mean the
Hackney Carriage as we know it would die.

--
DAS

On 2016\10\22 20:08, D A Stocks wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On 2016-10-18 14:38:42 +0000, said:

Hackney carriage drivers have meters to keep them honest of course. One
reason why licensed hire cars in Cambridge have meters.

The habit of refusing to use them seems particularly popular late at
night in MK. And they *all* refuse, so you can't just get in the one
behind. And the Council has no interest in removing their licences for
doing so.


If they refuse to use the meter is the passenger able to refuse to pay
the fare?

Fixed fares are generally paid up front.

In message , at 14:53:50 on Sat, 22 Oct
2016, Basil Jet remarked:
Arguing that they shouldn't have to compete with a "technology" based
routeing system instead on having to do "the knowledge", is just plain
Ludditeism. It's for the customer to decide what system they prefer
(and are prepared to pay for), not the regulators.

.. except that cars stopped in, say, Mercer Street while the driver
says "K L A R K U N W E L ... I am not finding it in my sattienav" will
bring the entire city to a halt. In fact, if you try moving a vehicle
anywhere near Trafalgar Square at midnight on a Friday, you will see
the area is already at a halt because of so many minicabs waiting for a
ping.

The Knowledge is much more than a human satnav, too. Someone said
recently "if you want to find the Womens' Refuge in a town, go to he
railway station and ask one of the taxi drivers". Like may other
destinations people might ask for, that isn't even in the satnav.
--
Roland Perry