In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect, make
obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers have had
their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life probably
exceeding at least 30 years then then should either guarantee a supply of
parts for that time period or suffer penalties such as swallowing the cost
of train upgrades if they can't? Even car manufacturers I believe are
by law required to be able to supply parts for their vehicles for a
minimum of 10 years in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:56:06 -0500
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect, make
obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers have had
their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life probably
exceeding at least 30 years then then should either guarantee a supply of
parts for that time period or suffer penalties such as swallowing the cost
of train upgrades if they can't? Even car manufacturers I believe are
by law required to be able to supply parts for their vehicles for a
minimum of 10 years in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

Well that was informative.

--
Spud

wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:56:06 -0500
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect, make
obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers have had
their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life probably
exceeding at least 30 years then then should either guarantee a supply
of
parts for that time period or suffer penalties such as swallowing the
cost
of train upgrades if they can't? Even car manufacturers I believe are
by law required to be able to supply parts for their vehicles for a
minimum of 10 years in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

Well that was informative.

The problem with trying to guarantee replacement parts for electronic
components, is that your suppliers wont guarantee supply of their devices
for an extended length of time.

I recall once working on a project where one of the components that had been
selected for the product was obsoleted during the development phase and the
board had to be re-engineered with a newer component.

You can usually expect to get guaranteed supply for 5-7 years out of a
supplier, but more than that and you are stuck having to make alternative
arrangements. You might stretch a repair stock to 10-12 years by buying in
before an item becomes obsolete, but 30 years!

tim

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

You can usually expect to get guaranteed supply for 5-7 years out
of a supplier, but more than that and you are stuck having to make
alternative arrangements. You might stretch a repair stock to
10-12 years by buying in before an item becomes obsolete, but 30
years!

Delorean spares still available off the shelf...

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
Please Help us dispose of unwanted virtual currency:
Bitcoin: 1LzAJBqzoaEudhsZ14W7YrdYSmLZ5m1seZ

In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:56:06 -0500
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect, make
obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers have had
their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life probably
exceeding at least 30 years then then should either guarantee a supply
of parts for that time period or suffer penalties such as swallowing
the cost of train upgrades if they can't? Even car manufacturers I
believe are by law required to be able to supply parts for their
vehicles for a minimum of 10 years in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

Well that was informative.

The problem with trying to guarantee replacement parts for electronic
components, is that your suppliers wont guarantee supply of their
devices for an extended length of time.

I recall once working on a project where one of the components that
had been selected for the product was obsoleted during the
development phase and the board had to be re-engineered with a newer
component.

You can usually expect to get guaranteed supply for 5-7 years out of
a supplier, but more than that and you are stuck having to make
alternative arrangements. You might stretch a repair stock to 10-12
years by buying in before an item becomes obsolete, but 30 years!

And with modern electronics, the timescales get shorter and shorter.

NRN radios were 1980s technology. We made lots of them when I worked at
Philips. By the end of the 1990s it wasn't even possible to manufacture the
radios any more because electronics as discrete components on circuit boards
were used any more. Replacement radio models hadn't been through the same
approval process necessary for safety assurance of railway control systems.

Yet radios manufactured back to the mid-80s are still today installed in
train cabs and used at least until recently. A substantial cottage industry
grew up finding and repairing such radios to keep the railway going. No
doubt the same sort of thing will have to happen with the successor GSM-R
technology.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 23.10.2016 2:41 AM, wrote:
In article , (tim...)
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:56:06 -0500
wrote:
In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect, make
obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers have had
their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life probably
exceeding at least 30 years then then should either guarantee a supply
of parts for that time period or suffer penalties such as swallowing
the cost of train upgrades if they can't? Even car manufacturers I
believe are by law required to be able to supply parts for their
vehicles for a minimum of 10 years in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

Well that was informative.

The problem with trying to guarantee replacement parts for electronic
components, is that your suppliers wont guarantee supply of their
devices for an extended length of time.

I recall once working on a project where one of the components that
had been selected for the product was obsoleted during the
development phase and the board had to be re-engineered with a newer
component.

You can usually expect to get guaranteed supply for 5-7 years out of
a supplier, but more than that and you are stuck having to make
alternative arrangements. You might stretch a repair stock to 10-12
years by buying in before an item becomes obsolete, but 30 years!

And with modern electronics, the timescales get shorter and shorter.

NRN radios were 1980s technology. We made lots of them when I worked at
Philips.

Hail well to a fellow Philips veteran! Ex PRL Redhill here).

I've got nothing of value to add... Err, ob.transport, I always use a train
when I visit friends/old Philips colleagues in Eindhoven (clutches at
straw...)

In article , (Clank)
wrote:

On 23.10.2016 2:41 AM, wrote:
In article ,
(tim...) wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 18:56:06 -0500
wrote:
In article , d ()
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 18:39:46 -0500
wrote:
GTO electronics are seriously obsolete which could, I suspect,
make obtaining further sets quite hard. Note that some Networkers
have had their GTO controls replaced by Hitachi.

Surely if a manufacturer builds a train with a working life
probably exceeding at least 30 years then then should either
guarantee a supply of parts for that time period or suffer
penalties such as swallowing the cost of train upgrades if they
can't? Even car manufacturers I believe are by law required to be
able to supply parts for their vehicles for a minimum of 10 years
in the USA & EU.

ROFL!

Well that was informative.

The problem with trying to guarantee replacement parts for electronic
components, is that your suppliers wont guarantee supply of their
devices for an extended length of time.

I recall once working on a project where one of the components that
had been selected for the product was obsoleted during the development
phase and the board had to be re-engineered with a newer component.

You can usually expect to get guaranteed supply for 5-7 years out of
a supplier, but more than that and you are stuck having to make
alternative arrangements. You might stretch a repair stock to 10-12
years by buying in before an item becomes obsolete, but 30 years!

And with modern electronics, the timescales get shorter and shorter.

NRN radios were 1980s technology. We made lots of them when I worked at
Philips.

Hail well to a fellow Philips veteran! Ex PRL Redhill here).

You didn't make the Research Labs move to Cambridge then?

I've got nothing of value to add... Err, ob.transport, I always use a
train when I visit friends/old Philips colleagues in Eindhoven (clutches
at straw...)

Have you travelled on a Croydon tram? The original Bombardier Flexity fleet
still have their Simoco-branded FM1000 radios. Simoco had gone bust by the
time the tramway opened but I think Philips had to back the guarantees.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 23/10/2016 00:41, wrote:
A substantial cottage industry
grew up finding and repairing such radios to keep the railway going. No
doubt the same sort of thing will have to happen with the successor GSM-R
technology.

I'd hope it wasn't necessary - from memory of my short time playing with
GSM-R the vast majority of the "technology" was just a big IN platform
in the network and a vast number of strange rules, so realistically any
GSM handset should work (although were there changes to ensure they
worked at full HST speeds, in which case I wish the cottage industry
luck with fixing that kind of thing!)

Actually - I've just looked and they decided to use different
frequencies which introduced a level of protectionism that seems
unnecessary.

In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:

On 23/10/2016 00:41, wrote:
A substantial cottage industry
grew up finding and repairing such radios to keep the railway going. No
doubt the same sort of thing will have to happen with the successor
GSM-R technology.

I'd hope it wasn't necessary - from memory of my short time playing
with GSM-R the vast majority of the "technology" was just a big IN
platform in the network and a vast number of strange rules, so
realistically any GSM handset should work (although were there
changes to ensure they worked at full HST speeds, in which case I
wish the cottage industry luck with fixing that kind of thing!)

Actually - I've just looked and they decided to use different
frequencies which introduced a level of protectionism that seems
unnecessary.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly but the cottage industry is for the
NRN (and radio signalling in the Highlands) environment, not GSM-R which I
think has now replaced NRN. For a long time NRN had shut down in the south
but continued in the north. Maybe you are right that a similar industry will
not arise for GSM-R in due course but there is no successor on the horizon
at present of course.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 09:05:34AM +0100, Someone Somewhere wrote:

... GSM-R ...

Actually - I've just looked and they decided to use different
frequencies which introduced a level of protectionism that seems
unnecessary.

I was under the impression that that wasn't because of protectionism but
to avoid having to share crowded spectrum with the hundreds of people
sitting behind the driver.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

Graecum est; non legitur