In message
-sept
ember.org, at 14:48:53 on Tue, 24 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:

hatever flavour of Brexit we finally end up with in perhaps 5-10 years
time, it'll disappoint many Brexiteers and most remainers. But, by
then, few will remember or care what was promised in 2016.

Like we don't remember "peace in our time", "you never had it so good"
and "the pound in your pocket is not being devalued"??
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:44:57 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017, Clank remarked:
No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list,
and handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Since more or less by definition the people on the list are foreigners, the
UK will just adopt the existing Visa & Immigration Service approach to
handling complaints - to whit, saying "tough ****".

Any crackdown would set the ECHR alight with complaints.

I thought the while point of Brexit was that the UK could safely ignore the
ECHR

Oh - My - God.

The ECHR is nothing to do with the EU.

Nevertheless, I thought Theresa May had indicated an intention to withdraw.
On googling I see I was right, but as on most things she had changed her
mind.

Does the ECHR grant a right to travel to a member state then? Because it
seems a bit of a waste of time leaving the EU if, as you suggest, it
does...

It's mainly about asylum seekers, not economic migrants.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:47:09 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017, Clank remarked:
You may not be aware, but the 'invitations' in Russia are purely a
money making scam - you can actually get an individual (or
business) to invite you, but it subjects them to a great deal of
hassle and paperwork so it's rarely done.

I may be one of those rare cases then.

You mean, "a pain in the arse for your hosts"?

Someone worth the pain, I suppose.

No matter how worthwhile I consider myself, I take the view that I am never
so special as to cause someone else inconvenience if there is an
alternative.

The alternative would have been not going...

That you do not subscribe to this basic tenet surprises me not one iota...

.... which would have inconvenienced them more.
--
Roland Perry

In message e4ne8chrdol5epnbilquhtu43is4bt1bds@None, at 06:56:30 on
Tue, 24 Jan 2017, Arthur Conan Doyle remarked:

I manage engineering teams in the US, India and the EU and I can say the rules
aren't black in white. They strongly depend on your visa legal counsel

I've never had one of those (other than perhaps the very first time I
got a classic USA 'indefinite' B1/B2, and that was decades ago).

Sorry - by visa counsel I meant a lawyer who specializes in visa issues.

I know.

We have enough complicated situations that we have an office that helps
manage our inbound and outbound visa applications for us.

I don't.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 14:48:53 on Tue, 24 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:

hatever flavour of Brexit we finally end up with in perhaps 5-10 years
time, it'll disappoint many Brexiteers and most remainers. But, by then,
few will remember or care what was promised in 2016.

Like we don't remember "peace in our time", "you never had it so good" and
"the pound in your pocket is not being devalued"??

well as for the last two, no don't remember what was actually being promised

tim

In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017, tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list, and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan
2017, tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list, and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:32:38 on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

Perhaps a bad example then. Working in the kitchen at a cafe or pub etc
etc.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 10:24:51 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:32:38 on Wed, 25 Jan 2017, Recliner
remarked:
The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear
to be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic
restaurants working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the
floor, in a cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they
often have no papers, so can't be identified.

Are many of such staff EU citizens? If not, then it's unrelated to
continuing to allow EU citizens to use ePassport gates at UK airports.

Perhaps a bad example then. Working in the kitchen at a cafe or pub etc
etc.

To be working illegally like that would mean they were earning
significantly less than the minimum wage. I wonder how many EU
citizens are prepared to do that?

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:23:54 on Tue, 24 Jan 2017,
tim... remarked:

No, the scarce resource is those deciding who to put on the list, and
handling complaints when people are denied boarding.

Better that it be done once, centrally,

By a huge team of people?

No. It's not some complex searching process, but simply keeping a
fairly small list of EU citizens who have UK criminal convictions or
have broken UK employment law. You're over-complicating it.

The complicated bit is proving they've broken employment law.

I assume that he means working here without a visa (when required),

Indeed.

not some minutiae of the WTD

That ought to be **** easy

Perhaps there's a job for you in the Immigration police, as they appear to
be pretty bad at catching up with (eg) kitchen staff if ethnic restaurants
working cash in hand and sleeping on a mattress on the floor, in a
cupboard under the stairs. And when they do catch up, they often have no
papers, so can't be identified.

I must concede that I missed that point

But actually it will be possible with Schengen citizens, as the rule for
digital Passports in Schengen countries require the digital information to
include a finger print (something that is optional world wide and not used
by the UK.) (And in a very short time, if not already, all current
passports will be digital.)

So assuming the errant worker arrived by a normal method and just converted
his "pretend" holiday into a working visit his real identity can be
determined by checking his finger print again the EU-wide country's Passport
database.

All that's required here is the necessary authorisations to make that check.

(We are going to be making an agreement to co-operate on security matters
with the EU, aren't we. The EU does need access to our, vastly superior,
security services, doesn't it. The EU isn't going to cut its nose off to
spite its face by refusing to cooperate on such matters, is it?)

tim