In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
wrote:

In article ,
writes
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as
an emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and
moorgate stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to
carry passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?

I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican, let alone all the way to Moorgate.

To quote my own web site:

The section of the Widened Lines east of Farringdon closed in 2009:
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.

I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?

Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote:

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
wrote:

In article ,
writes
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as
an emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and
moorgate stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to
carry passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?

I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican, let alone all the way to Moorgate.

To quote my own web site:

The section of the Widened Lines east of Farringdon closed in 2009:
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.

I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?

Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?

Depots, other sidings, maybe spare station platforms (particularly at
night). They've managed without any sidings on that stretch for quite a few
years (certainly before the S stock came in), and never had room for more
than a couple of trains before that. I can't think of any other examples of
such large sidings in the middle of a line. Could this be to compensate for
the loss of sidings capacity at the Triangle Sidings and Hammersmith depot,
due to the longer S7 trains?

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:52:28 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
wrote:
The section of the Widened Lines east of Farringdon closed in 2009:
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.

I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?

I wonder why you're wrong about almost everything. I guess we'll never know.

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for

I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?
Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:18:08 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for

I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?

Aren't you the self-proclaimed expert on such matters?

Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.

It's a siding, not a branch.

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:02:41 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:18:08 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for

I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?

Aren't you the self-proclaimed expert on such matters?

If I was I wouldn't ask.

Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.

It's a siding, not a branch.

Semantics.

In article , writes
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up.

But then you have trains terminating at Moorgate and not Barking or
Edgware Road like they're supposed to.

If you're going to turn trains back early, there are facilities at KXSP.

--
Clive D.W. Feather

On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 16:03:39 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
In article , writes
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up.

But then you have trains terminating at Moorgate and not Barking or
Edgware Road like they're supposed to.

If you're going to turn trains back early, there are facilities at KXSP.

You should work for LU, you're thinking about how to make their life easier,
not the passengers. Mr Pax doesn't give a monkeys where the trains normal
reversing points are, he just wants to get to work and he won't be pleased
if he's dumped 2 miles away at KX if the train could in theory go all the
way to moorgate.

[Re-opening an old thread]

In article , writes
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for

I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up.

As I understand it, the spacing is tight and so the sidings will only be
connected to the Inner Rail (westbound) with no crossover from the Outer
Rail (eastbound). So an eastbound train won't be able to get into the
sidings.

Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?
Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.

I suspect they'll just be driven "on sight".

--
Clive D.W. Feather

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 23:06:57 +0100
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
[Re-opening an old thread]

In article , writes
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for

I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to

moorgate section stuffs up.

As I understand it, the spacing is tight and so the sidings will only be
connected to the Inner Rail (westbound) with no crossover from the Outer
Rail (eastbound). So an eastbound train won't be able to get into the
sidings.

Thats a pity. Still, there's always scope to add a crossover in the future I
suppose.