In message , at 15:12:21 on Mon, 19 Mar
2018, remarked:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:17:14 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:25:15 on Mon, 19 Mar
2018, remarked:

(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx

An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway.
"You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners,
cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost
taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex"

Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract
traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or
the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use
what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver.

Possibly, but I would guess that the majority of people who would prefer to
take a train to central london don't want to pay extortionate fares only to be
dumped at paddington.

The same is true of the destination of any "Airport Express" train (or
indeed coach). But the point is those travellers now feel comfortable
because they are safely "in the big city".

If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the
pollution reduction targets.

Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

the contribution of ground traffic
to the overall pollution increase that the 3rd runway will cause is probably
negligable.

Apparently not, and hence the need for the airport to go to
extraordinary measures, like building HEx in the first place,
to meet the targets.
--
Roland Perry

I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian carnet style product to be put on a card.

In message , at
13:15:46 on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, Offramp remarked:

I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS
MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian
carnet style product to be put on a card.

Part-time seasons (in effect a carnet) were part of the DfT plan for
National Rail a couple of years ago. It's gone awfully quiet though.

Pre-Oyster I used London Underground paper carnet tickets.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:29:47 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:12:21 on Mon, 19 Mar
2018, remarked:
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.

In message , at 09:33:39 on Tue, 20 Mar
2018, remarked:

Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.

The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."

--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:23:05 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:33:39 on Tue, 20 Mar
2018, remarked:

Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.

The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."

Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.

In message , at 11:56:57 on Tue, 20 Mar
2018, remarked:

Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.

The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."

Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.

They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:20:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:56:57 on Tue, 20 Mar
2018, remarked:

Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the
former
by an order of magnitude.

The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."

Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.

They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.

No **** sherlock. It certainly won't be car drivers, there arn't enough parking
spaces.

In message , at 13:38:38 on Tue, 20 Mar
2018, remarked:
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,

Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.

It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the
former
by an order of magnitude.

The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."

Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.

They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.

No **** sherlock. It certainly won't be car drivers, there arn't enough parking
spaces.

You appear to be under the misapprehension that a significant number of
Heathrow passengers drive themselves to the airport and park for the
duration. The size of the available parking, let alone the cost, means
this simply "doesn't compute".

Apart from a handful of business passengers paying to park for a few
days using someone else's money (and probably costing more than the
flight itself).

While I don't claim to be a typical flyer, I do end up being "taxi-dad"
[fsvo 'dad'] for a significant number of flyers over the years.

In any one year I probably shuttle half a dozen family/friend flyers to
one or more airports (Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester dominate) but
it's many years since I drove myself (with or without family) to an
airport and parked there while *we* did a flight.

As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around
2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only
because my return flights to Luton were after MML could be bothered to
provide any trains back to my home town.

And that's the tragedy, for the UK rail system.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:54:23 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around
2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only

Don't most stations have a parking duration limit which could easily be
exceeded by a holiday?