London Transport (uk.transport.london) Discussion of all forms of transport in London.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11   Report Post  
Old July 19th 18, 09:48 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Sep 2017
Posts: 329
Default Goblin latest

On 18 Jul 2018 16:32:34 +0100 (BST)
Jonathan Amery wrote:
In article , wrote:
On 18 Jul 2018 15:14:44 +0100 (BST)
Jonathan Amery wrote:
This being the TfL that's so scrapped for cash that it's mortgaging
rolling stock it hasn't finished paying for yet?


The 378s were ordered long before Kahn came in and froze fares.


Also long before there was any finalized plans to electrify the
GOBLIN in any sense; as has been described before.


Not entirely true. The goblin electrification looked pretty certain in 2009
when it would have been fairly easy to roll a few more 378s off the production
line.

Also TfL were already running low on money in the early 2010s which
would have been the latest possible time to order more 378s, and that
at a higher cost than the original units were since they'd used all
their option to buy more units.


Would that cost have been more than the 710s they're ordering now? Either way,
they'd have an electric service running now if they'd ordered more 378s.
Currently they don't.

Half a century? Would the presense of a switched off conductor rail on a
closed for upgrade line cause some some disturbance in The Force preventing
the installation of AC overhead then? Oddly it didn't prevent most of the
rest of the NLL being converted to AC.


No, but having spent millions only 10 years ago will cause a
disturbance in the beancounters.


)

10 years ago yes, but I was referring to decades ago when the NLL was first
electrified. I have no idea why the goblin didn't have a 3rd rail put down
at the same time but if it had this problem wouldn't exist.


  #12   Report Post  
Old July 19th 18, 10:18 AM
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Feb 2011
Location: Leyton, East London
Posts: 833
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
On 18 Jul 2018 16:32:34 +0100 (BST)
Jonathan Amery wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On 18 Jul 2018 15:14:44 +0100 (BST)
Jonathan Amery
wrote:
This being the TfL that's so scrapped for cash that it's mortgaging
rolling stock it hasn't finished paying for yet?


The 378s were ordered long before Kahn came in and froze fares.


Also long before there was any finalized plans to electrify the
GOBLIN in any sense; as has been described before.


Not entirely true. The goblin electrification looked pretty certain in 2009
when it would have been fairly easy to roll a few more 378s off the production
line.

Also TfL were already running low on money in the early 2010s which
would have been the latest possible time to order more 378s, and that
at a higher cost than the original units were since they'd used all
their option to buy more units.


Would that cost have been more than the 710s they're ordering now? Either way,
they'd have an electric service running now if they'd ordered more 378s.
Currently they don't.

Half a century? Would the presense of a switched off conductor rail on a
closed for upgrade line cause some some disturbance in The Force preventing
the installation of AC overhead then? Oddly it didn't prevent most of the
rest of the NLL being converted to AC.


No, but having spent millions only 10 years ago will cause a
disturbance in the beancounters.


)

10 years ago yes, but I was referring to decades ago when the NLL was first
electrified. I have no idea why the goblin didn't have a 3rd rail put down
at the same time but if it had this problem wouldn't exist.
The North London Line was indeed electrified decades ago, and electric trains ran from Richmond to Broad Street. When Broad Street was closed, the 3rd rail electrification was extended to North Woolwich and the trains from Richmond were diverted to there.

During those years trains along what is now GOBLIN ran to Kentish Town and in the evenings to St. Pancras. It was a very lightly used service. When I moved to Leyton, I used it one day to visit a friend in Kentish Town. The man in the ticket office - yes, we had them in those days - asked me "why does nobody use this line?" I replied that it was because no-one knew about the service.

That is still my opinion. If the route to Kentish Town had remained open and GOBLIN had been absorbed into Thameslink, the volume of business would be far, far higher than it is today. However, the reason GOBLIN was not electrified with 3rd rail back then was because it was such a quiet backwater railway.

Last edited by Robin9 : July 19th 18 at 01:41 PM
  #13   Report Post  
Old July 19th 18, 11:00 AM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Sep 2017
Posts: 329
Default Goblin latest

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 10:18:54 +0100
Robin9 wrote:
;166533 Wrote:
10 years ago yes, but I was referring to decades ago when the NLL was
first
electrified. I have no idea why the goblin didn't have a 3rd rail put
down
at the same time but if it had this problem wouldn't exist.


The North London Line was indeed electrified decades ago, and electric
trains ran from Richmond to Broad Street. When Broad Street was closed,
the 3rd rail electrification was extended to North Woolwich and the
trains from Richmond were diverted to there.


I've sometimes wondered why the NLL went as far as north woolwich. There's
nothing there (though that seems to be changing). Was the ferry trip over from
woolwich proper + NLL preferable to the direct train services from woolwich?

When I moved to Leyton, I used it one day to visit a friend in Kentish
Town. The man in the ticket office - yes, we have them in those days -
asked me "why does nobody use this line?" I replied that it was because
no-one knew about the service.


Some things don't change. If you look at a current tube map you'll notice
the finsbury park to moorgate line has now been removed which seems a petty
thing to do given how useful it is. Just because its not run by TfL doesn't
to me seem like a good enough excuse not to have it.

  #14   Report Post  
Old July 19th 18, 01:39 PM
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Feb 2011
Location: Leyton, East London
Posts: 833
Default

The extension of 3rd rail to North Woolwich was to kill two birds with one stone. At one time there was a regular service from North Woolwich to Palace Gates via Stratford, South Tottenham and Seven Sisters. When the Palace Gates branch was closed, the service was cut back to Stratford. With the planned closure of Broad Street, it was obvious to combine the two services and so trains ran from Richmond to North Woolwich.

Now, of course, the Stratford/North Woolwich section is a tram service with additional stops and 3rd rail has been replaced by overhead cables until South Acton Station.

As for the Woolwich Ferry, I don't recall many pedestrians ever using it. It was always busy with vehicles.

Last edited by Robin9 : July 19th 18 at 01:44 PM
  #15   Report Post  
Old July 19th 18, 02:24 PM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Sep 2017
Posts: 329
Default Goblin latest

On Thu, 19 Jul 2018 13:39:54 +0100
Robin9 wrote:
Now, of course, the Stratford/North Woolwich section is a tram service
with additional stops and 3rd rail has been replaced by overhead cables
until South Acton Station.

As for the Woolwich Ferry, I don't recall many pedestrians ever using
it. It was always busy with vehicles.


I didn't mean the current woolwich ferry , I remember reading somewhere
that there was a foot ferry to north woolwich that landed at a quay just
near the station.



  #18   Report Post  
Old July 20th 18, 10:20 AM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 195
Default Goblin latest

On Wednesday, 18 July 2018 05:24:31 UTC+1, Basil Jet wrote:
It's looking fairly likely that TfL will have to give away their diesel
trains before the electric trains are ready, and might end up
bustituting for a while.

https://www.londonreconnections.com/...nsport-update/


Overtaken by events. The proposed timetable change that would require the 172s to move to West Midlands Trains has been cancelled. Therefore, if necessary, the 172 could stay beyond November 2018.

Two class 710s have been moved to Willesden to ease storage issues at Derby.. Still awaiting the type approval sign off for them to actually run on NR tracks. Only then can a range of activities commence which would allow them to be used for driver training on the GOBLIN. Two more 710s may follow to Willesden but, again, only for storage at this point.

--
Paul C
via Google
  #19   Report Post  
Old July 20th 18, 10:24 AM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 195
Default Goblin latest

On Wednesday, 18 July 2018 10:13:34 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:

It's looking fairly likely that TfL will have to give away their diesel
trains before the electric trains are ready, and might end up
bustituting for a while.

https://www.londonreconnections.com/...nsport-update/


TfL certainly has a lot of looming issues. But I'd have thought it could
redeploy some of the 315s displaced from the Shenfield line as a very
short-term GOBLIN replacement fleet. Presumably Bombardier would have to
fund this, as it's months late with the new Aventras, and it currently
maintains the 315s anyway.


No you can't redeploy 315s. They do not have body mmounted CCTV cameras so you need to either retrofit them with this kit - pointless as they going to the scrapheap. You could fit platform CCTV and monitors at stations assuming there is space - this would take many months to do and get sign off. The new trains should be in service by then. The other alternative is to have dispatching staff on every platform - seems a rather extreme thing to do and no one will have budget for it. I really can't see any of this happening plus there are still a load of issues around whether the 315s even fit on the GOBLIN, whether LO drivers are trained on the stock etc etc.

--
Paul C
via Google
  #20   Report Post  
Old July 20th 18, 10:29 AM posted to uk.transport.london
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 195
Default Goblin latest

On Wednesday, 18 July 2018 10:16:01 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 05:24:29 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
It's looking fairly likely that TfL will have to give away their diesel
trains before the electric trains are ready, and might end up
bustituting for a while.


Its not hard to see why this has happened when you witness the responses of
so called "professional" railway employees on here when I suggested perhaps
TfL should have ordered a few more 378s when they had the chance or perhaps BR
should have just electrified the goblin with DC decades ago. It really is no
surprise the british rail industry is an utter basket case when this is the
calibre of the people working in it.


As I was the person who gave you a honest answer to your past questions about the 710s vs 378s then I assume you are tarring me with your insults about "so called professional railway employees". I have always tried to give you decent and appropriate answers on here despite the abuse and insults you chuck around. I know you won't give a damn about this but I won't be bothering in future.

Must be nice to be so bloody clever that you can read the past, the present and the future and also be "right" about everything.

--
Paul C
via Google


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest score Mick Tully London Transport 7 July 22nd 05 12:41 AM
Latest score Mick Tully London Transport 2 July 21st 05 10:49 PM
Latest minicab problem John Rowland London Transport 1 March 3rd 05 12:43 PM
Livingstone's latest wheeze John Rowland London Transport 31 October 27th 04 05:23 PM
Latest official Crossrail Line Diagram John Rowland London Transport 0 August 4th 04 11:10 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2018 London Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about London Transport"

 

Copyright © 2017