From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.

The first service, which is due to start in May between London Gateway and
London Liverpool Street, is intended to help hauliers avoid the charges
from London’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ), which was introduced this
year, and the congestion zone. It would also take traffic off the heavily
congested A13 that links the port near Thurrock in Essex to the capital.

A specialist rail engineering company, Rail Operations Group, is working
with DP World, the owner of London Gateway, to develop the low-emissions
scheme to compete with road hauliers to move consumer goods and freight
nearer to their final destination in London.

Karl Watts, ROG chief executive, said the response to its plans from
logistics companies and retailers had been “overwhelming,� although he
declined to name any customers that had signed up for the service.

Paul Orchard, ROG production director, said a series of different companies
— including logistics companies and retailers — were looking at
participating.

Heavy goods vehicles that fall short of the standards required for the ULEZ
have to pay a charge of £100 for each trip into the zone, which from April
this year mirrors the congestion-charging zone in central London. From
October 2021, Transport for London will extend ULEZ to cover the area
within the north and south circular roads.

Mr Orchard said road hauliers can face environmental charges of up to £200
on a return trip into the capital depending on timing and the type of
vehicle used. “The margins are in some cases wafer-thin,� Mr Orchard said
of road transport. “You start adding in an extra £200 . . . and that’s
enough to make rail competitive.�

ROG, which will offer the service under the “Orion� brand, plans to
initially run three round-trip rail services per day outside of peak hours.
It plans to use two converted, four-carriage trains that previously
operated the Thameslink cross-London passenger route.

The trains, due for delivery in May, are having their seats removed and
being fitted with diesel engines. The engines will generate power when the
train is not running on non-electrified lines, such as the freight sidings
at London Gateway. ROG estimates that each carriage on its trains will
carry around the same as a heavy truck.

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.
Liverpool Street is the UK’s third-busiest station with 67m passengers
using it in the year to the end of March 2018.

ROG is looking to expand the service and is talking to customers about
other destinations, including possible overnight trains between London and
Scotland and from London to Bristol.

DP World confirmed it had held discussions with ROG about starting the
service. It said it was also talking to the Port of London Authority on
plans to use barges to move some goods to a site in Fulham, west London, by
river.

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.

Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


It's probably not too hard to find three off-peak paths a day. These are
non-stopping 100 mph trains, so they could use the fast or slow lines.

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:02:18 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


It's probably not too hard to find three off-peak paths a day. These are
non-stopping 100 mph trains, so they could use the fast or slow lines.

They seem to have found some:

Trains will leave London Gateway at 0029, 1208 and 1856,
returning from Liverpool Street at 0242, 1421 and 2100. They
will use Platforms 9 and 10.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...-trial-planned

On 22/10/2019 13:26, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:02:18 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


It's probably not too hard to find three off-peak paths a day. These are
non-stopping 100 mph trains, so they could use the fast or slow lines.

They seem to have found some:

Trains will leave London Gateway at 0029, 1208 and 1856,
returning from Liverpool Street at 0242, 1421 and 2100. They
will use Platforms 9 and 10.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...-trial-planned

How are they going to tansfer between train and road vehicle? I didn't
think there was any access for road vehicles to the platforms at
Liverpool Street railway station these days.

wrote:
On 22/10/2019 13:26, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 10:02:18 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


It's probably not too hard to find three off-peak paths a day. These are
non-stopping 100 mph trains, so they could use the fast or slow lines.

They seem to have found some:

Trains will leave London Gateway at 0029, 1208 and 1856,
returning from Liverpool Street at 0242, 1421 and 2100. They
will use Platforms 9 and 10.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...-trial-planned

How are they going to tansfer between train and road vehicle? I didn't
think there was any access for road vehicles to the platforms at
Liverpool Street railway station these days.


The taxi rank used to be between platforms 10 and 11, at platform level.
ISTR seeing service vehicles in that area on a recent journey, so
presumably there’s still access.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 22/10/2019 10:42, Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


I wonder if the barges to Fulham idea is predicated on utilising the
empty return workings of the Cory (now Biffa) barges that bring rubbish
down river for incineration


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?
--
Roland Perry

On 22/10/2019 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?

Wasn't one problem the then lack of electric vans, now not so much of a
problem?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message , at 10:13:59 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
On 22/10/2019 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be
distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.
Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of
years ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have
them distributed by electric vans?

Wasn't one problem the then lack of electric vans, now not so much of a
problem?

I didn't ever see an explanation. But the way it was originally
presented sounded very much like someone with a fleet of electric vans
having a solution looking for a problem to solve - which the overnight
inner-City parcel delivery from Euston was a candidate for.
--
Roland Perry