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Old October 22nd 19, 09:49 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.

The first service, which is due to start in May between London Gateway and
London Liverpool Street, is intended to help hauliers avoid the charges
from London’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ), which was introduced this
year, and the congestion zone. It would also take traffic off the heavily
congested A13 that links the port near Thurrock in Essex to the capital.

A specialist rail engineering company, Rail Operations Group, is working
with DP World, the owner of London Gateway, to develop the low-emissions
scheme to compete with road hauliers to move consumer goods and freight
nearer to their final destination in London.

Karl Watts, ROG chief executive, said the response to its plans from
logistics companies and retailers had been “overwhelming,” although he
declined to name any customers that had signed up for the service.

Paul Orchard, ROG production director, said a series of different companies
— including logistics companies and retailers — were looking at
participating.

Heavy goods vehicles that fall short of the standards required for the ULEZ
have to pay a charge of £100 for each trip into the zone, which from April
this year mirrors the congestion-charging zone in central London. From
October 2021, Transport for London will extend ULEZ to cover the area
within the north and south circular roads.

Mr Orchard said road hauliers can face environmental charges of up to £200
on a return trip into the capital depending on timing and the type of
vehicle used. “The margins are in some cases wafer-thin,” Mr Orchard said
of road transport. “You start adding in an extra £200 . . . and that’s
enough to make rail competitive.”

ROG, which will offer the service under the “Orion” brand, plans to
initially run three round-trip rail services per day outside of peak hours.
It plans to use two converted, four-carriage trains that previously
operated the Thameslink cross-London passenger route.

The trains, due for delivery in May, are having their seats removed and
being fitted with diesel engines. The engines will generate power when the
train is not running on non-electrified lines, such as the freight sidings
at London Gateway. ROG estimates that each carriage on its trains will
carry around the same as a heavy truck.

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.
Liverpool Street is the UK’s third-busiest station with 67m passengers
using it in the year to the end of March 2018.

ROG is looking to expand the service and is talking to customers about
other destinations, including possible overnight trains between London and
Scotland and from London to Bristol.

DP World confirmed it had held discussions with ROG about starting the
service. It said it was also talking to the Port of London Authority on
plans to use barges to move some goods to a site in Fulham, west London, by
river.


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Old October 22nd 19, 09:59 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.


Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?
--
Roland Perry
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Old October 22nd 19, 10:12 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,492
Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

On 22/10/2019 09:49, Recliner wrote:
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.

The first service, which is due to start in May between London Gateway and
London Liverpool Street, is intended to help hauliers avoid the charges
from London’s Ultra-Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ), which was introduced this
year, and the congestion zone. It would also take traffic off the heavily
congested A13 that links the port near Thurrock in Essex to the capital.

A specialist rail engineering company, Rail Operations Group, is working
with DP World, the owner of London Gateway, to develop the low-emissions
scheme to compete with road hauliers to move consumer goods and freight
nearer to their final destination in London.

Karl Watts, ROG chief executive, said the response to its plans from
logistics companies and retailers had been “overwhelming,” although he
declined to name any customers that had signed up for the service.

Paul Orchard, ROG production director, said a series of different companies
— including logistics companies and retailers — were looking at
participating.

Heavy goods vehicles that fall short of the standards required for the ULEZ
have to pay a charge of £100 for each trip into the zone, which from April
this year mirrors the congestion-charging zone in central London. From
October 2021, Transport for London will extend ULEZ to cover the area
within the north and south circular roads.

Mr Orchard said road hauliers can face environmental charges of up to £200
on a return trip into the capital depending on timing and the type of
vehicle used. “The margins are in some cases wafer-thin,” Mr Orchard said
of road transport. “You start adding in an extra £200 . . . and that’s
enough to make rail competitive.”

ROG, which will offer the service under the “Orion” brand, plans to
initially run three round-trip rail services per day outside of peak hours.
It plans to use two converted, four-carriage trains that previously
operated the Thameslink cross-London passenger route.

The trains, due for delivery in May, are having their seats removed and
being fitted with diesel engines. The engines will generate power when the
train is not running on non-electrified lines, such as the freight sidings
at London Gateway. ROG estimates that each carriage on its trains will
carry around the same as a heavy truck.

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.
Liverpool Street is the UK’s third-busiest station with 67m passengers
using it in the year to the end of March 2018.

ROG is looking to expand the service and is talking to customers about
other destinations, including possible overnight trains between London and
Scotland and from London to Bristol.

DP World confirmed it had held discussions with ROG about starting the
service. It said it was also talking to the Port of London Authority on
plans to use barges to move some goods to a site in Fulham, west London, by
river.


Then ship them up the Grand Union to Birmingham!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 10:13 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

On 22/10/2019 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.


Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?


Wasn't one problem the then lack of electric vans, now not so much of a
problem?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 10:20 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

In message , at 10:13:59 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
On 22/10/2019 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be
distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of
years ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have
them distributed by electric vans?


Wasn't one problem the then lack of electric vans, now not so much of a
problem?


I didn't ever see an explanation. But the way it was originally
presented sounded very much like someone with a fleet of electric vans
having a solution looking for a problem to solve - which the overnight
inner-City parcel delivery from Euston was a candidate for.
--
Roland Perry


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Old October 22nd 19, 10:42 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:13:59 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Graeme Wall remarked:
On 22/10/2019 09:59, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be
distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.
Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of
years ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have
them distributed by electric vans?


Wasn't one problem the then lack of electric vans, now not so much of a
problem?


I didn't ever see an explanation. But the way it was originally
presented sounded very much like someone with a fleet of electric vans
having a solution looking for a problem to solve - which the overnight
inner-City parcel delivery from Euston was a candidate for.


I don't think anyone had a fleet of under-used electric vans back then.
Now, they're readily available, and the economic benefit from using them in
the ULEZ will be much greater.

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/e-nv200.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/17/arrival-time-how-the-white-van-went-green

https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2019/levc-lcv-london-taxi-based-hybrid-delivery-van-revealed/


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Old October 22nd 19, 10:42 AM
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Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.
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Old October 22nd 19, 10:58 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2019
Posts: 265
Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.


Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?


That was a one-off concept demonstration, back in June 2014. It was
organised by a consultancy (Intermodality) with Colas Rail and TNT. The
demo proved that the idea was workable, but my guess is that the economics
weren't favourable at the time. Things have obviously changed six years
later.

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Old October 22nd 19, 11:02 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


It's probably not too hard to find three off-peak paths a day. These are
non-stopping 100 mph trains, so they could use the fast or slow lines.



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Old October 22nd 19, 11:16 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

In message , at 09:58:34 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.


Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?


That was a one-off concept demonstration, back in June 2014. It was
organised by a consultancy (Intermodality) with Colas Rail and TNT. The
demo proved that the idea was workable, but my guess is that the economics
weren't favourable at the time.


Economics is a very big component of "workable".

Things have obviously changed six years later.


Not necessarily. This could be just another concept demonstration.
--
Roland Perry


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