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Old October 22nd 19, 11:31 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:58:34 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?


That was a one-off concept demonstration, back in June 2014. It was
organised by a consultancy (Intermodality) with Colas Rail and TNT. The
demo proved that the idea was workable, but my guess is that the economics
weren't favourable at the time.


Economics is a very big component of "workable".


Not in most dictionaries.


Things have obviously changed six years later.


Not necessarily. This could be just another concept demonstration.


No it's not. The trains were ordered in January, and the service starts
next May.


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Old October 22nd 19, 11:35 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage individual
"units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual units
onto little trucks

What size of individual unit is this going to work for?

tim





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Old October 22nd 19, 11:47 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage individual
"units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual units
onto little trucks

What size of individual unit is this going to work for?


Probably some sort of roll-on cages or containers that can get through the
train doors and on to electric vans. The cages may be towed as a train
along the platforms.

In the 2014 demonstration run:

The train was formed of former First Great Western motor-rail car carriers,
which are suitable for carrying traffic in roll cages; these had previously
been used for another trial with Stobart in 2012, delivering perishable
food for six Sainsbury’s stores.

For the latest trial, TNT delivered the roll cages to Colas Rail's Rugby
depot, where the transfer from road to rail took 20 min. After a 132 km
trip, the train arrived at Euston at 02.38, and the goods were transhipped
into a fleet of TNT electric and low-emission road vehicles in less than an
hour.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/freight/colas-rail-and-tnt-test-express-rail-logistics/39578.article

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Old October 22nd 19, 11:47 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

On 22/10/2019 10:42, Robin9 wrote:

Very interesting so thanks for that. I'm a little surprised that
there are spare train paths for additional trains along that
route. I would have guessed these trains were planned to run
during the night, but as the plan also envisages barges instead
of trains to Fulham, that seems unlikely. I recognise that Crossrail
will reduce the number of trains into Liverpool Street itself, but the
line between Forest Gate and Pudding Mill Lane will see no relief.


I wonder if the barges to Fulham idea is predicated on utilising the
empty return workings of the Cory (now Biffa) barges that bring rubbish
down river for incineration


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 11:50 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

In message , at 10:31:41 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:58:34 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?

That was a one-off concept demonstration, back in June 2014. It was
organised by a consultancy (Intermodality) with Colas Rail and TNT. The
demo proved that the idea was workable, but my guess is that the economics
weren't favourable at the time.


Economics is a very big component of "workable".


Not in most dictionaries.


You can make almost anything "work" if you throw enough money at it.


Things have obviously changed six years later.


Not necessarily. This could be just another concept demonstration.


No it's not. The trains were ordered in January, and the service starts
next May.


Too far in the future to predict it won't get quietly dropped.
--
Roland Perry


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Old October 22nd 19, 11:52 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

On 22/10/2019 11:35, tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577


One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new
role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London
from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage
individual "units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual
units onto little trucks


Actually into vans


What size of individual unit is this going to work for?


Pallets and wheeled cages, think updated BRUTES.

Somehow it reminds me of one of the late Michael Bell's schemes


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 11:59 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage individual
"units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual units
onto little trucks

What size of individual unit is this going to work for?

tim


Thousands of packages but if you want a guide to size think what the
different sizes of packages delivered by
amazon warehouse or carried by the various couriers such as DPD or DHL .
You will often see their interhub lorries on the motorways especially at
night moving such goods , the train to London can be compared with them.

1000’s of small business import items made for them by the box load from
say China all the time but not in the volumes to fill a whole container,
hence the container is shared and unstuffed at the arrival Port or an
Inland container terminal by firms who specialise in it . All that is
different here is that instead of passing onwards by lorry it is going to
be fowarded by train.

GH



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Old October 22nd 19, 12:11 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/10/2019 11:35, tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577



One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new
role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London
from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage
individual "units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual
units onto little trucks


Actually into vans


What size of individual unit is this going to work for?


Pallets and wheeled cages, think updated BRUTES.

Somehow it reminds me of one of the late Michael Bell's schemes


His scheme involved autonomous, self-propelled containers being carried on
the convertible upper deck of his giant high speed double-decker trains.
They would drive themselves right to the cutomer's address.

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Old October 22nd 19, 12:13 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:31:41 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:58:34 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:49:40 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

Once the packages arrive at Liverpool Street, they will be distributed to
their final destinations around the city by electric van or cargo bikes.

Whatever happened to the very similar sounding scheme a couple of years
ago to deliver packages to Euston in the small hours, and have them
distributed by electric vans?

That was a one-off concept demonstration, back in June 2014. It was
organised by a consultancy (Intermodality) with Colas Rail and TNT. The
demo proved that the idea was workable, but my guess is that the economics
weren't favourable at the time.

Economics is a very big component of "workable".


Not in most dictionaries.


You can make almost anything "work" if you throw enough money at it.


Now you're just arguing for argument's sake.



Things have obviously changed six years later.

Not necessarily. This could be just another concept demonstration.


No it's not. The trains were ordered in January, and the service starts
next May.


Too far in the future to predict it won't get quietly dropped.


Hardly. The train order was placed ten months ago, not 'far in the future'.


My main reservation is that the work is being done by Wabtec (Brush)
Loughborough, which seems to be late with everything.

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Old October 22nd 19, 12:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Orion 769 Flex cargo services into Liverpool St

tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
From:

https://www.ft.com/content/c2b51fd2-f19f-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195?segmentId=080b04f5-af92-ae6f-0513-095d44fb3577

One of the Britain’s busiest railway stations is set to take on a new role
as a freight hub as part of a plan to shuttle goods to central London from
a container port using old passenger trains.


Have I understood this right?

someone is going to take a container of stuff from the port

transfer the contents of it onto a converted passenger carriage individual
"units" at a time, presumably through side door(s)

and then at the other end empty the passenger carriage by individual units
onto little trucks

What size of individual unit is this going to work for?


Presumably pallets, or the kind of wheeled cage often used to transport
deliveries from road vehicles of whatever size, into town centre shops.

Or perhaps Bellsian autonomous 2' gauge vehicles.


Anna Noyd-Dryver



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