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Old October 22nd 19, 12:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real time
access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?

tim




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Old October 22nd 19, 12:38 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't riding
on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


--
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This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 01:58 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default C5 Fare Dodgers - question

On 22/10/2019 12:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't
riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


Real time access to onboard CCTV *is* possible, if the right equipment
is fitted. It's rare, though. The company I used to work in CCTV for had
it fitted to a limited number of buses, and the police had mobile
receiving equipment in a following car/van.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

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Old October 22nd 19, 03:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real time
access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


No, I haven't

the dialogue definitely suggested that the RPI was seeing the same video we
did

And it's obviously, in this technological era, technically possible

so the only question is, do the RPIs actually have the equipment to allow
it?

And given that one of the reasons why the Airwave replacement has been
delayed is because they haven't (yet) implemented the replay of video, No
wouldn't be a surprise.

But OTOH, as TfL's equipment probably doesn't have to have the same levels
of security as Police Systems require, it could be possible with off the
shelf devices.

tim




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Graeme Wall
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Old October 22nd 19, 03:34 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2019 12:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't riding
on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


Real time access to onboard CCTV *is* possible, if the right equipment is
fitted.


Fitted where?

on the bus,

in the control room

in the RPI's equipment?

It's rare, though. The company I used to work in CCTV for had it fitted to
a limited number of buses, and the police had mobile receiving equipment
in a following car/van.


It seemed from the rest of the program that onboard CCTV is retrospectively
available via the control room servers.

So, is that, saved "live"? Which would be a bit of an overkill for hundreds
of busses and what, 7 or 8 cameras per bus. Or uploaded at the end of turn
(the bus, not the driver).

tim





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Old October 22nd 19, 04:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 22/10/2019 15:34, tim... wrote:


"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2019 12:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't
riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


Real time access to onboard CCTV *is* possible, if the right equipment
is fitted.


Fitted where?

on the bus,

in the control room

in the RPI's equipment?

It's rare, though. The company I used to work in CCTV for had it
fitted to a limited number of buses, and the police had mobile
receiving equipment in a following car/van.


It seemed from the rest of the program that onboard CCTV is
retrospectively available via the control room servers.

So, is that, saved "live"?* Which would be a bit of an overkill for
hundreds of busses and what, 7 or 8 cameras per bus.* Or uploaded at the
end of turn (the bus, not the driver).


The bus has an onboard HDD recorder which has capacity to hold footage
for around a month or so. The way it usually works (or did with us) is
that under normal circumstances, these are recording all the time that
the bus is active, from the moment the engine is started to a preset
period (a couple of hours or so) after it is switched off.

When the bus returns to garage at the end of the day, any incidents that
have been requested will be downloaded to the server. The whole of the
contents of the buses' HDD's will not be downloaded, this would just be
a waste of time, as for 99% of the time nothing important is happening.
You only need to download what you need to investigate any particular
incident that has been reported. If the bus happens to be in the garage,
then it's usually quite easy (I say usually, as sod's law says the
equipment on the bus will have failed when you really need something and
the police are standing next to you waiting..!) to download what is
needed and put it on a DVD or whatever. If it's out on the road, you
generally have to wait until it's back, hence it isn't possible to get
instant access.

For the purpose of a specific police operation, then they would follow a
bus in another vehicle and link directly to it, in this situation they
would be able to view the cameras live without being on the bus.

It *is* possible to view live camera feed from a moving vehicle back in
the garage, but it needs something like 4G fitted, which quite honestly
the company I worked for didn't feel was financially viable. Personally
I disagreed, but then I wasn't in charge of the budget.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]
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Old October 22nd 19, 04:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,492
Default C5 Fare Dodgers - question

On 22/10/2019 15:22, tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't
riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.


No, I haven't

the dialogue definitely suggested that the RPI was seeing the same video
we did

And it's obviously, in this technological era, technically possible

so the only question is, do the RPIs actually have the equipment to
allow it?

And given that one of the reasons why the Airwave replacement has been
delayed is because they haven't (yet) implemented the replay of video,
No wouldn't be a surprise.

But OTOH, as TfL's equipment probably doesn't have to have the same
levels of security as Police Systems require, it could be possible with
off the shelf devices.


Possibly a demo for the programme to make people think it was in normal use.




--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old October 22nd 19, 05:08 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 22/10/2019 15:34, tim... wrote:


"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...
On 22/10/2019 12:38, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 22/10/2019 12:29, tim... wrote:
Did others see this?

Not that you need to have done to answer my question

The program appeared to show the roving RPIs/Police Offices had real
time access to the CCTV inside a specific bus (that they weren't
riding on).

Do they really have that capability?

Or was this just post editing of the program to pretend that they did?


You've just answered your question.

Real time access to onboard CCTV *is* possible, if the right equipment
is fitted.


Fitted where?

on the bus,

in the control room

in the RPI's equipment?

It's rare, though. The company I used to work in CCTV for had it
fitted to a limited number of buses, and the police had mobile
receiving equipment in a following car/van.


It seemed from the rest of the program that onboard CCTV is
retrospectively available via the control room servers.

So, is that, saved "live"?* Which would be a bit of an overkill for
hundreds of busses and what, 7 or 8 cameras per bus.* Or uploaded at the
end of turn (the bus, not the driver).


The bus has an onboard HDD recorder which has capacity to hold footage
for around a month or so. The way it usually works (or did with us) is
that under normal circumstances, these are recording all the time that
the bus is active, from the moment the engine is started to a preset
period (a couple of hours or so) after it is switched off.

When the bus returns to garage at the end of the day, any incidents that
have been requested will be downloaded to the server. The whole of the
contents of the buses' HDD's will not be downloaded, this would just be
a waste of time, as for 99% of the time nothing important is happening.
You only need to download what you need to investigate any particular
incident that has been reported. If the bus happens to be in the garage,
then it's usually quite easy (I say usually, as sod's law says the
equipment on the bus will have failed when you really need something and
the police are standing next to you waiting..!) to download what is
needed and put it on a DVD or whatever. If it's out on the road, you
generally have to wait until it's back, hence it isn't possible to get
instant access.

For the purpose of a specific police operation, then they would follow a
bus in another vehicle and link directly to it, in this situation they
would be able to view the cameras live without being on the bus.

It *is* possible to view live camera feed from a moving vehicle back in
the garage, but it needs something like 4G fitted, which quite honestly
the company I worked for didn't feel was financially viable. Personally
I disagreed, but then I wasn't in charge of the budget.


Presumably they'll have moved on from HDDs to solid state storage by now?
They're only storing relatively low res compressed JPEGs, so the files will
be small.


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Old October 22nd 19, 05:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 921
Default C5 Fare Dodgers - question



"MissRiaElaine" wrote in message
...


The bus has an onboard HDD recorder which has capacity to hold footage for
around a month or so. The way it usually works (or did with us) is that
under normal circumstances, these are recording all the time that the bus
is active, from the moment the engine is started to a preset period (a
couple of hours or so) after it is switched off.

When the bus returns to garage at the end of the day, any incidents that
have been requested will be downloaded to the server. The whole of the
contents of the buses' HDD's will not be downloaded, this would just be a
waste of time, as for 99% of the time nothing important is happening. You
only need to download what you need to investigate any particular incident
that has been reported. If the bus happens to be in the garage, then it's
usually quite easy (I say usually, as sod's law says the equipment on the
bus will have failed when you really need something and the police are
standing next to you waiting..!) to download what is needed and put it on
a DVD or whatever. If it's out on the road, you generally have to wait
until it's back, hence it isn't possible to get instant access.


very useful, but

I don't know who saw the program - no one has commented,

though (with exception of the previously referred to police incident) most
of the incidents highlighted were office staff (or more likely now,
automated systems) determining that particular Oyster cards as suspected of
being used to travel long, or dumbelling. Historic CCTV data (some of which
was from bus journeys) was used to capture images of the suspected
miscreant. Thus the actual CCTV footage viewed could be weeks old.

RPIs were then show on the lookout for that person the next time they went
through a barrier at the expected time (as you might imagine, not with 100%
success)

For the purpose of a specific police operation, then they would follow a
bus in another vehicle and link directly to it, in this situation they
would be able to view the cameras live without being on the bus.


The TV incident was "immediate"

tim



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Old October 22nd 19, 07:02 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 16:08:54 on Tue, 22 Oct
2019, Recliner remarked:

[CCTV]

Presumably they'll have moved on from HDDs to solid state storage by now?
They're only storing relatively low res compressed JPEGs, so the files will
be small.


My dashcam stores ridiculously uncompressed video.

250MB every 5 minutes.

Downloaded TV shows are typically 200MB for their 42 minutes.
--
Roland Perry


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