On 29/02/2020 09:15, tim... wrote:


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 29/02/2020 07:46, tim... wrote:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:54:44 on Fri, 28 Feb
2020, tim... remarked:

It therefore cannot possibly be argued that this increased
opportunity for air travel is necessary for the overall good of
the UK economy (except in the trivial amount that air side
purchases form of the economy)

You still banging on about that? The economic benefits of
passengers (andÂ* cargo) in transit go *way* beyond people buying a
cup of coffee.

really

show your working,

cos I don't believe it

Every passenger in transit uses up two seats, and all the supporting
logistics for two seats. Not just at the airport, but all the
service industries whose customers are Heathrow based.

And it's not just a handful of seats on the planes, 35% of
passengers are doing transit.

but it's still a tiny amount of effect on total UK economy

Also not just all that extra money being spent locally to facilitate
their flights, but in many cases there very presence is what support
the number of destinations served, and in some cases the number of
days a week those flights operate.

but that not, of itself, an improvement for the UK Economy.

It's just an "Opportunity" benefit.Â* (one that wont be accepted as
overriding the environmental dis-benefit)

In other news, a statistics from the news this week: 40% of all our
exports (to countries outside the EU - they sometimes forget to make
that qualification) go out of Heathrow. That's by value rather than
volume, of course.

but freight doesn't *need* to go from LHR.

That freight is presumably there because suitable passenger flights
with space in the hold, are currently there

and when the flights (to wherever it is) go from someone else (LGW
for example), International freight goes from that somewhere else.

and in many cases dedicated freight flights are set up from less
used, but strategically placed, airports as in the DHL hub at East Mids.

there's no pull factor from freight to fly from LHR, and no benefit
to UK GDP to move it there from where it currently flies from.

The biggest destination is the USA, which isn't surprising, not
because of the size of the market, but shipping something by sea to
Seattle or Los Angeles is a bit time consuming, and to Dallas or
Chicago really quite difficult. Whereas the planes can land anywhere
just as easily.

That contradicts just about everything the Airports Commission had to
say about freight in its final report.Â* It also contradicts what the
air freight industry said.Â* One of their points was that some services
are simply not economic if flights (and all the overheads of freight
handling) are distributed among several airports. They require the
diversity of destinations at a hub and the concentration of functions
there.

Can you not see that that's contradictory

"We want all of *our* flights to go from one airport

but we want to be able to ship stuff to multiple airports"

But then shippers at the other end probably wants all their shipments to
go from one airport and ship to multiple destinations.

they can't both be satisfied (unless loads of aircraft are going to fly
around empty on return legs).

First, many destinations are other /hub/ airports.

Second, other countries can make their own decisions. The UK's
geography and locations of other airports militates for Heathrow (as
documented in the report).

Of course UK reps are going to say in some governmental committee
meeting, with none of the foreign representatives present, that they
want that.Â* But out in the real world, it's impossible to give it to
them (that's logically impossible not physically/financially impossible)


I have no idea why you think government committees are relevant. The
Airport Commission carried out open consultations. The freight industry
made their views public at the time and later*. But then they're only
the people who run the logistics and freight businesses "in the real world".

*e.g.
"The decision to increase capacity at Heathrow is the right choice for
the UK economy, the freight industry and the nation. FTA has forged a
detailed campaign highlighting the vital importance of air freight to
the UK economy and why a decision backing the Airports Commission's
recommendation for a third runway is essential for UK importers and
exporters who rely on the expansion of Heathrow. About 40% of UK imports
and exports by value are dependent on air freight and the wide range of
services provided by Heathrow to access our overseas markets."

https://fta.co.uk/campaigns/issues/heathrow-expansion



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid