Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?

"Rajesh Kakad (BT)" wrote in message
...
Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?

Some might say that a certain newt-collecting person who holds a mayoral
post in London might actually *want* the traffic to remain stationary for
longer so as to deter people from driving in London ;-)


In general I'd say that a turn-left-on-red rule would probably work quite
well. But to be effective, it would require a separate lane for
left-turners - otherwise the person in front of you who wants to go straight
on would prevent you getting past him to turn left. It would need a massive
programme of re-education, not just of drivers but also of pedestrians and
cyclists. Maybe it should only apply to junctions with a left filter, where
the left lane sees one of two aspects: flashing amber (while straight ahead
traffic has red, to warn you that you must still give way to traffic from
your right and to pedestrians) and green (in sync with the green lights for
straight-ahead traffic).

Possibly more urgent is to upgrade traffic lights to have a phase for
right-turning traffic: I've sat for ages at lights which only let one
vehicle turn right for each cycle of the lights because there is an
infinitesimally small time between the lights turning green to let you onto
the junction and the oncoming traffic starting to move, blocking your right
turn. I remember that there was a set of lights like this near Feltham, on
the route that the Heathrow Airport to Feltham Station bus used: it would
have been quicker to have got off the bus as it first stopped in the queue
and walked the last few hundred yards to the station :-(

Rajesh Kakad (BT) wrote:
Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where
they can turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have
priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get
traffic moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?

Even if there is a separate lane for left-turning traffic, which often
there isn't room for in London, a left-turning driver would have poor
visibility of conflicting traffic if a bus or truck is waiting in the
adjacent lane at the lights.

As a way of improving junction capacity, I prefer the French system
(Parisian, anyway) of giving pedestrians priority over turning vehicles.
At a cross-roads where north-south and east-west roads meet, when
north-south traffic has green signals, the 'green man' is displayed for
pedestrians crossing the east-west roads, and traffic turning into those
roads has to give way to them. I'm sure the HSE would have a fit, but
it does seem to work. The great advantage is that there is no need to
halt all traffic for a pedestrian-only phase.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to cross

anymore ideas?

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"gs" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to
cross

anymore ideas?

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

FWIW, here in the States there was quite a controversy when the idea was
first floated for Right Turn on Red. The nay-sayers complained of the
hundreds of thousands of pedestrians that would perish. There was, in fact,
quite a learning curve (no pun intended) and there were some tragic crashes
at first, but all-in-all it seems to work just fine now. As for a dedicated
right turn lane (left in the UK), while we do have some, the bulk of
intersections have none. Therefore if car #1 goes straight and car #2 wants
to turn, car #2 waits for the traffic signal to change. What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts. I love driving in your
country because the roundabouts at least keep traffic somewhat flowing as
opposed to what someone else in this thread said about waiting for signals
to change when not a cross traffic or pedestrian is in sight. BTW, if we
want to turn left (in the USA) on to a one-way street that only goes to the
left and we are also on a one-way street, we can legally turn left.

Rich

"Rich":
BTW, if we want to turn left (in the USA) on to a one-way street that
only goes to the left and we are also on a one-way street, we can
legally turn left.

He means on red, of course. Otherwise it wouldn't be interesting.

That is the usual rule in North America, but there is some variation
between states and provinces. A few don't allow this, while a few
allow left-on-red as long as you're turning *into* a one-way street
(left and right turns into the same street would go into different
lanes unless the one-way street was too narrow, so there's no conflict
with converging traffic); or as long as you're turning *from* a one-way
street. See e.g. http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/signals.html.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto cat/dev/null got your tongue?
-- Jutta Degener

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Fri, 28 May 2004 at 21:27:33, mookie89
wrote:

What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts. I love driving in your
country because the roundabouts at least keep traffic somewhat flowing as
opposed to what someone else in this thread said about waiting for signals
to change when not a cross traffic or pedestrian is in sight.

Wouldn't it, just! I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the
USA, where every single intersection, no matter how minor, has its
traffic lights..... (on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but
Brooklyn or New York.... yikes!).
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 9 May 2004

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Annabel Smyth wrote:

I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the USA, where every
single intersection, no matter how minor, has its traffic lights.....

That's not entirely true. There will generally not be a traffic signal at
an intersection between a major road and a minor road, although there are
exceptions in central business districts. Likewise, intersections between
two minor roads usually do not have traffic signals.

And of course, I have actually seen roundabouts in America (!).

(on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but Brooklyn or New
York.... yikes!).

Brooklyn is a part of New York City.
--
Michael Hoffman

"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
news:Pine.WNT.4.58.0406010830400.2736@ZVAVZBB...
On Mon, 31 May 2004, Annabel Smyth wrote:

I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the USA, where every
single intersection, no matter how minor, has its traffic lights.....

That's not entirely true. There will generally not be a traffic signal at
an intersection between a major road and a minor road, although there are
exceptions in central business districts. Likewise, intersections between
two minor roads usually do not have traffic signals.

And of course, I have actually seen roundabouts in America (!).

(on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but Brooklyn or New
York.... yikes!).

Brooklyn is a part of New York City.
--
Michael Hoffman

Here in Illinois there is a specific formula for determining if/when a
traffic control is warranted, be it a stop sign, traffic signal, or simply a
yield sign. Being in a major metropolitan area - Chicago suburbs -
satisfying the requirement for X amount of traffic volume is reached fairly
quickly, it seems. Traffic signals seem to pop up like weeds, sprouting up
overnight - yes, I am exaggerating. In the northwest suburbs, there is one
traffic circle that I am aware of - been there many years. We used to go
sit and watch the fun as most people using it had not a clue what to do.
The circle is by an industrial area with many out-of-towners coming through
on a typical business day.

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction. Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Rich

What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts.

Try Massachusetts. You too can drive like a Bostonian.

Jeremy Parker