"Peter Beale" wrote in message
o.uk...
In article ,
(Jeremy Parker) wrote:

What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts.

Try Massachusetts. You too can drive like a Bostonian.

Just spent two weeks in MA, during which I came across about three
"rotaries". Anyone going to Boston is well-advised to park on the
edge and take the "T". The "Big Dig" is coming to its completion, but
some way to go yet!

One thing which struck me as very odd (apart from driving on the wrong
side of the road) was a number of quite major cross-roads where traffic
from all four directions is required to stop. They then look at each other
until one of them decides to proceed, hoping that the other will not do so
at the same time.

I have driven a bit (probably about 1000 miles in total) in Massachussetts,
around small towns such as Ipswich, on the main highway between there and
Cape Cod, and in the centre of Boston.

My over-riding impression was that drivers there seemed more laid-back and
more willing, both in small towns and in Boston, to let pedestrians cross in
front of them. As a pedestrian I found cars would stop for me if I even
*thought* about crossing!

My other lasting impression is that road signing is appalling once you get
off the multi-lane highways: maybe I'm used to British signing where every
significant road junction has direction signs to the next village/town, and
not just a road name. A map that includes street names is essential. Also,
compass directions on signs tend to relate to where the road ends up, not
the next town it's heading for: if you know that you want a town that's due
east, it's disconcerting to have to follow signs that say "west" because
although the road initially goes east, it then turns south and *finally*
west.

I found it very disconcerting that there is often no give-way or stop line
where a minor road joins a major road - it's especially difficult to judge
where to stop if the minor road meets a major road on a bend.

Roundabouts (rotaries, traffic circles) are very rare. I can only think of
one that I encountered: on the entrance to Cape Cod over the Saggamore
Bridge. I found it dead easy to negotiate - just like a British roundabout
except you give way to traffic on your left. But I found that American
drivers were inclined to hesitate, fumble around and change lanes without
any regard for other traffic on roundabouts!

Four-way stop junctions are tedious: firstly because *all* traffic has to
stop, not just traffic on the road that is deemed to be minor, and secondly
because priority is based on the *order* in which traffic arrived (very
difficult to remember) rather than being based on *position* on the road,
such as the priority-to-the-right (or left) rule in roundabouts.

Some good points: variable speed limits that apply during specific hours: eg
25 outside a school, rising to 45 outside of the times when children will be
arriving or departing. Here in the UK there would be a blanket,
24-hour-a-day 30 (or even 20) limit.


Public transport in the centre of Boston is excellent: trains are frequent
on most lines of the T. But main-line trains (eg from Ipswich to Boston) are
*very* infrequent: at irregular times with about 90 minutes in between;
services on lines leading into a similar-sized British city (eg Leeds,
Manchester) would probably be every 30 minutes at the same number of minutes
past every hour.

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:27:40 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction. Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Do they not use induction loops in the US? Most major traffic-light
intersections in the UK are fitted with these, which mean that if the
direction on green is not being used, the lights can be automatically
changed as a car approaches on the other one, meaning the car will
probably only need to slow down briefly if at all.

Where you have roundabouts with unbalanced flows, it's also common for
traffic lights to be used on the roundabout to regulate traffic flow.
A roundabout only really works if the traffic flow is reasonably
balanced. This is causing problems at certain roundabouts in Milton
Keynes, which are likely to gain traffic lights and/or speed limit
reductions to try to resolve the problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 13:27:40 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of Indianapolis,
traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road construction.
Drivers
seem a little tentative, not understanding proper traffic circle
protocol,
but hopefully this will ease out and we Americans can take a lesson from
our
British ancestors and keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a
red
light wasting gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

Do they not use induction loops in the US? Most major traffic-light
intersections in the UK are fitted with these, which mean that if the
direction on green is not being used, the lights can be automatically
changed as a car approaches on the other one, meaning the car will
probably only need to slow down briefly if at all.

Where you have roundabouts with unbalanced flows, it's also common for
traffic lights to be used on the roundabout to regulate traffic flow.
A roundabout only really works if the traffic flow is reasonably
balanced. This is causing problems at certain roundabouts in Milton
Keynes, which are likely to gain traffic lights and/or speed limit
reductions to try to resolve the problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street is,
as you know, an eternity. Another irritant is pedestrian crosswalk
lighting. My experience in the UK has been that I push the button, the
light will change at some point, then almost immediately the system begins
bleeping and the light changes again meaning there is time for a few people
to cross and traffic once again proceeds. Here in the USA, it seems that
pedestrian lights are timed assuming the slowest person on earth is
crossing. Many times one person crosses, the light continues up to 30 full
seconds and then cycles again. Again, the time seems an eternity. All this
tends to have people jumping the light or worse yet, attempting to beat the
light before it changes red thereby endangering the pedestrian. I am not
complaining per se as some sort of traffic/pedestrian control is necessary.
The point of delicate balance, though, seems elusive.

Rich

mookie89 wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of
Indianapolis, traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road
construction. Drivers seem a little tentative, not understanding
proper traffic circle protocol, but hopefully this will ease out
and we Americans can take a lesson from our British ancestors and
keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red light wasting
gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

When you think you have mastered roundabouts, have a look at my
favourite, the Magic Roundabout at Swindon:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Clive wrote in message ...
In message , gs writes

Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy
My experience in Naples is that traffic lights are advisory only.

No no no. In Milan, they are instructions, in Rome suggestions, and in
Naples Christmas decorations.

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:03:10 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street is,
as you know, an eternity. snip

This is rather silly. Applied properly, induction loops will override
the cycle and give right of way to the road on which there are
vehicles over the one where there are not. Only if there are vehicles
on more than one of the roads feeding the junction is it necessary to
revert to a traditional pre-programmed cycle.

This kind of thing is also used to give buses priority at certain
junctions, for example. If a vehicle is detected in the bus lane, the
lights are automatically changed in its favour so it shouldn't even
need to brake. This has been going on for a while - the intersections
on the 1970s Runcorn Busway are so fitted, I believe.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

"gs" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to
cross


If enough drivers just start turning left through red lights anyway the
police aren't going to take any notice and it will become normal. It'll be
just like law the forbidding people to use their mobile phones whilst
driving which has become a complete JOKE. Another example is cyclists
riding being 'allowed' to ride through red lights.

Freddy

In message , James
writes
No no no. In Milan, they are instructions, in Rome suggestions, and in
Naples Christmas decorations.

Just occasionally, something appears in Usenet to make me laugh out loud
and splatter the screen with tea. This - happily - was one such
moment! :-))

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 21:03:10 GMT, "mookie89"
wrote:

Inductions loops, yes. But.....
Here in Illinois, IDOT (Illinois Department of Transportation) may set
the
control device(s) for peak/non-peak hours. So even though there is a
loop,
it may take up to two minutes to cycle through depending upon what time
of
day it is. Two minutes, 120 seconds, when no one is on the cross street
is,
as you know, an eternity. snip

This is rather silly. Applied properly, induction loops will override
the cycle and give right of way to the road on which there are
vehicles over the one where there are not. Only if there are vehicles
on more than one of the roads feeding the junction is it necessary to
revert to a traditional pre-programmed cycle.

This kind of thing is also used to give buses priority at certain
junctions, for example. If a vehicle is detected in the bus lane, the
lights are automatically changed in its favour so it shouldn't even
need to brake. This has been going on for a while - the intersections
on the 1970s Runcorn Busway are so fitted, I believe.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Silly, I agree. And very frustrating. Just last night it happened to me.
Again. I went in to the city to catch a night baseball game (Chicago Cubs,
of course) and the train got back to my community at midnight. As I pulled
up to cross the major road, my light was red but the opposing traffic had a
left turn light. I had to sit through the entire cycle which allowed a
green on the cross street but not one vehicle was there! I finally got my
green light. It would just seem that with today's technology they could do
a better job.

Also, our emergency vehicles have what's known as an OptiCon System on
board. Basically it is a very specific white high intensity strobe lamp
aimed slightly upward. At many USA intersections a little periscope
appearing apparatus is mounted just above the traffic light. That's the
OptiCon sensor. When the police car/ambulance/fire truck emits the strobe
pulse, the signals quickly favor the emergency vehicle.

Rich

"Richard J." wrote in message
...
mookie89 wrote:

Interestingly enough, in a fast growing northern suburb of
Indianapolis, traffic circles are becoming quite common in new road
construction. Drivers seem a little tentative, not understanding
proper traffic circle protocol, but hopefully this will ease out
and we Americans can take a lesson from our British ancestors and
keep the traffic flowing instead of sitting at a red light wasting
gasoline while absolutely no one is using the cross street.

When you think you have mastered roundabouts, have a look at my
favourite, the Magic Roundabout at Swindon:
http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

OMG! I wonder what kind of, er, medicine that traffic engineer was taking
at the moment of truth. The police must have been severely....
puckered.... when they decided to let all the traffic just have at it. But
hey, if it works! Thanks for pointing this out to me. A very good British
friend of mine consults a lot in public transport, specializing in public
school transport. I'll have to ask her about this one.

Rich