"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Dave Liney
writes

But I don't use them so that's okay. (That is the attitude we're meant to
take isn't it?

No - your reasoning has failed. The argument is not about things we don't
use - it is about facilities that are currently in place and that we do
use - and that are not being replaced by anything comparable.

It's only an extra 25-30 minutes away and the reduced journey time when the
CTRL phase 2 is opened will eat into most of this so I disagree that it is
not being replaced by anything comparable.

Otherwise I can't see why so many people are complaining
about the Eurostar terminal moving all of 1.9 miles across a city with a
very good public transport links.)

Its not the distance. Its the time and inconvenience that is the problem -
as you so very well demonstrate.

I suggest that more people have reduced journey time and inconvenience
getting to StP than have increased journey time. The idea that only people
in SWT-land use Eurostar services is a joke, yet some on this newsgroup seem
to believe it.

If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a bus
to
Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or you could walk
to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take around 30 minutes
either way.

What's the point? Heathrow is 15 minutes drive from this part of
South-West London and flying is cheaper.

So fly. Though is the cost of parking/taxis and flights really less than
that of train and Eurostar, and would you really save time when checking in
time is taken into consideration?

Of course it is then there is a good, cheap public transport solution to
getting to Paris in your area of London which means that if by moving
Eurostar's London terminus those that don't have one at present gain one.
Sounds like everyone's a winner.

Dave.

In uk.railway Graeme Wall wrote:
Given my national rail (aka SWT) train to Waterloo doesn't stop at Vauxhall
that is not a great deal of help. I'm in the quadrant that is probably most
affected by the change. I'm too far west to make using Ashford at all
attractive and too far south for an easy journey to St Pancras. Also will
there be CIV tickets available?

I must be missing something as I do Waterloo-St Pancras everytime I
go and see my girlfriend in Bournemouth (thus avoiding Virgin voyagers
and CT fun since the Cov-Loughborough service was shelved). This is
sometimes with a _large_ rucksack or trolley for a week's stay. I
usually go St.Pancras to Leicester Square on the Piccy and then on to
Waterloo on the Northern. There's a few steps in there and sometimes
the Tube can be a bit packed (especially at peak times) but its not a
big deal IMHO.

Jim'll

wrote in message
...
In uk.railway Graeme Wall wrote:
Given my national rail (aka SWT) train to Waterloo doesn't stop at
Vauxhall
that is not a great deal of help. I'm in the quadrant that is probably
most
affected by the change. I'm too far west to make using Ashford at all
attractive and too far south for an easy journey to St Pancras. Also
will
there be CIV tickets available?

I must be missing something as I do Waterloo-St Pancras everytime I
go and see my girlfriend in Bournemouth (thus avoiding Virgin voyagers
and CT fun since the Cov-Loughborough service was shelved). This is
sometimes with a _large_ rucksack or trolley for a week's stay. I
usually go St.Pancras to Leicester Square on the Piccy and then on to
Waterloo on the Northern. There's a few steps in there and sometimes
the Tube can be a bit packed (especially at peak times) but its not a
big deal IMHO.

The bid advantage of the old SR was that it offered interchange between it's
surface lines. As the CTRL goes through, err, Kent, why can't we have a
connecting service between Waterloo and whichever convenient station on the
CTRL they choose?

In message ,
writes

I must be missing something as I do Waterloo-St Pancras everytime I
go and see my girlfriend in Bournemouth

The point you are missing is that the interchange we are discussing
(which is from SWT to Eurostar) currently takes about 30 seconds.

When it involves travelling between Waterloo/Vauxhall and St Pancras I
can confidently predict that it will take more than 30 seconds.

--
Paul Terry

In message , at 19:53:50 on Tue, 23 Nov
2004, MartinM remarked:
The bid advantage of the old SR was that it offered interchange between it's
surface lines. As the CTRL goes through, err, Kent, why can't we have a
connecting service between Waterloo and whichever convenient station on the
CTRL they choose?

You can currently do Waterloo East to Ashford in 1hr 4 mins, direct.

That's almost as fast as E* manages.
--
Roland Perry

In message , Dave Liney
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

The argument is not about things we don't
use - it is about facilities that are currently in place and that we do
use - and that are not being replaced by anything comparable.

It's only an extra 25-30 minutes away

In each direction. And its not just the time but the inconvenience of
additional (and very poor) interchanges when carrying luggage - for some
people this will be four *additional* interchanges on a round trip.

and the reduced journey time when the CTRL phase 2 is opened will eat
into most of this

15 minutes - so we lose half an hour on each return journey *and* have
extra interchanges - including the delight of humping suitcases up the
stairs at Vauxhall or on and off of buses.

so I disagree that it is not being replaced by anything comparable.

That's fine. It won't be an arrangement I envisage using.

I suggest that more people have reduced journey time and inconvenience
getting to StP than have increased journey time.

Taken the population at large, that is probable. The question running
throughout this thread is ... are those cohorts of people in other parts
of the capital likely to require business trips or desire leisure breaks
in Eurostar destinations?

Like it or not, the people who NEED to make business trips to the
continent have tended to live in SWLondon partly because of the
proximity of Heathrow and more latterly Eurostar from Waterloo.

The idea that only people in SWT-land use Eurostar services is a joke,
yet some on this newsgroup seem to believe it.

You don't strengthen your case by making silly exaggerations such as
"only" people in SWT-land. If you note the very large numbers that make
the short journey across the concourse from Waterloo International to
the SWT platforms, you will see that a large proportion of Eurostar's
customers travel by SWT. That doesn't mean that "everyone" does, and it
is a joke that you make such a ridiculous exaggeration.

What's the point? Heathrow is 15 minutes drive from this part of
South-West London and flying is cheaper.

So fly.

I shall. And that is exactly the point. People like me who have made
many Eurostar journeys in the past are unlikely to continue to do so if
the service is degraded to below that obtainable from Heathrow. Eurostar
will lose that custom. Hopefully it will build up new customers - if it
doesn't then everyone can expect a poorer service.

Though is the cost of parking/taxis and flights really less than
that of train and Eurostar,

Yes, significantly so. The other half will happily drop me at Heathrow
for almost no cost since it takes only 15 minutes or so each way. I
certainly wouldn't get a similar lift from here to St Pancras, which is
seldom less than a two-hour round-trip!

and would you really save time when checking in time is taken into
consideration?

Yes. In the finely-balanced equation, that is the "edge" over flying
that Eurostar will lose. They were always more expensive, but they were
slightly quicker, more pleasant and more convenient.

They are likely to remain more expensive and even more pleasant, but
will no longer be quicker or so convenient.

Of course it is then there is a good, cheap public transport solution to
getting to Paris in your area of London which means that if by moving
Eurostar's London terminus those that don't have one at present gain one.

No. They have one already - it is called Waterloo. They don't use it
because they find having to travel across London too inconvenient.

Does that ring a bell?

Anyone with business sense (and that has seldom included Eurostar) would
realise that the way to increase trade is to increase your outlets, not
close them.

Sounds like everyone's a winner.

Clearly not

--
Paul Terry

Martin Rich wrote:

Which line is that? For many (most?) Waterloo commuters the natural
way to St Pancras is to get off their national rail train at Vauxhall,
admittedly not the nicest or easiest of interchanges, and get the
Victoria Line which in my experience is usually quick and efficient.

The problem is that so many trains don't stop at Vauxhall, which means
an additional change at Clapham Junction, which is not an experience
for the faint-hearted!

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

"Peter Lawrence" wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 07:17:38 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

James wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 22 Nov 2004:

It's easy: get off at Vauxhall, get on the Victoria Line, get off at
KXSP. That is one of the easiest cross-London transfers ever. If your
particular train doesn't stop at Vauxhall, perhaps you would like to
lobby SWT to stop it there.

All those steps? With heavy luggage? I *don't* think so.

Perhaps when they close Waterloo Intl they can be persuaded to move
some of the redundant escalators to Vauxhall?


I think I have a solution to the problem.

Run frequent domestic services between Waterloo (formerly)
International and Ashford International (via CTRL Phase 1) using the
paths freed up by the withdrawal of Eurostar services.

Problem solved? I think so.

On 16 Nov 2004 13:15:07 GMT, (Mait001) wrote:

It would not be difficult to use these platforms for Windsor Line trains,
making it much less likely for any trains to have to queue up outside
Waterloo waiting for platforms. But that wonn't make use of the platform
length - it would probably be too expensive to extend any Windsor line
station to take 12x20m trains, let alone 16- or 20-car.

Not to mention the fact that they still can't even run a full complement
of 8 car trains of the new stocks on the 3rd rail system because of power
supply issues.


Leaving aside the power supply issues, which will have to be resolved in any
event, why cannot 12-car or 16-car trains be run on the Windsor lines. What
law is there that EVERY car has to be accessible to each platform?

Why couldn't for example, a Reading train leaving Waterloo specify that only
the doors of the first 8 carriages will open at certain stations and the rear 8
carriages at the others?

This could not have happened with slam-door trains, but with controlled doors,
why can this not happen?


You *can* do this, but it will require some work to get authority from
HMRI. The Inspectorate generally doesn't like selective door
opening....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

In message
wrote:

In uk.railway Graeme Wall wrote:
Given my national rail (aka SWT) train to Waterloo doesn't stop at
Vauxhall that is not a great deal of help. I'm in the quadrant that is
probably most affected by the change. I'm too far west to make using
Ashford at all attractive and too far south for an easy journey to St
Pancras. Also will there be CIV tickets available?

I must be missing something as I do Waterloo-St Pancras everytime I
go and see my girlfriend in Bournemouth (thus avoiding Virgin voyagers
and CT fun since the Cov-Loughborough service was shelved). This is
sometimes with a _large_ rucksack or trolley for a week's stay. I
usually go St.Pancras to Leicester Square on the Piccy and then on to
Waterloo on the Northern. There's a few steps in there and sometimes
the Tube can be a bit packed (especially at peak times) but its not a
big deal IMHO.


Point is that the extra time taken to get from Waterloo to St Pancras neatly
cancels out the time saved by building the CTRL, bit of a bummer!

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html