Phil Richards wrote in message ET...
redtube wrote:

"A plan to run London Underground services for an extra hour on Friday
and Saturday nights will be put to Londoners, the Mayor has said.

Oh yeah are they going to put the idea to the Train Ops as well?

So a change to rosters, perhaps. What's wrong with that? Most staff who
finish work late in the day will still have to rely upon getting home by
car or night bus with the existing arrangements, I can't see what extra
difficulties will be met with finishing say an hour or two later two
nights a week.

It seems the case is clear. You can have a later closed close down time
at Weekends at the expense of a later start up time the following
mornings? Perhaps we ought to be questioning whether or not the
maintenance work can be fitted around slightly longer operational hours
by retaining existing start up times and for two nights a week just
loosing an hour or two at the end of the day.

I really don't see this coming off. A few late over running
engineering works and you wont see the first underground trains until
after 8am. I can see London businesses tolerating that just so a few
party goers on a Friday night don't need to get a taxi home.
But typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

On 23 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

Which is what? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

tom

--
REMOVE AND DESTROY

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
On 23 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

Which is what? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

tom

The problem is with the fact that you can't get a taxi after 9pm let
alone midnight unless it is an illegal minicab and if you are a woman
you stand a good chence of getting attacked by the minicab driver.
With taxi drivers (legal) making more than enough money working 9 to 5
they wont work during the night. And Ken Livinstone has done what to
help this situation.
Kevin

On 24 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
On 23 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

Which is what? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

The problem is with the fact that you can't get a taxi after 9pm let
alone midnight unless it is an illegal minicab and if you are a woman
you stand a good chence of getting attacked by the minicab driver. With
taxi drivers (legal) making more than enough money working 9 to 5 they
wont work during the night. And Ken Livinstone has done what to help
this situation.

I think we have another problem here, which is that YOU ARE INSANE.

The real problem is most definitely *not* that i can't get a taxi home. I
don't want to get a taxi home! I want cheap, simple public transport home!
I don't want to stick a tenner in some fat, racist, cyclist-murdering
arsehole's pocket just so i can sleep in my own bed!

The real cause is that our tube system requires far too much maintenance;
the solution is to replace or renew the entire thing, with good-quality,
well-designed tracks, trains and signals, and with enough redundancy that
parts can be taken out of service without shutting the whole thing down
(either New-York-style quadruple tubes, triple tubes, or some way of
closing one of the pair of tubes and wrong-railing the trains past it).
Sadly, this would cost about 2 to 2.5 hojillion pounds, so we can't do it.
Therefore, we resort to palliative care, viz later tube opening.

tom

ps No offence, Mr Hughes!

--
Understand the world we're living in

Kevin wrote:

I really don't see this coming off. A few late over running
engineering works and you wont see the first underground trains until
after 8am. I can see London businesses tolerating that just so a few
party goers on a Friday night don't need to get a taxi home.

A "few" party goers? According to the figures on the BBC site 140,000
would use a later running tube service. 55,000 use the tube on during the
first hour of the weekend.

But typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

So your solution would be?

--
Phil Richards
Strod Green, London
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Phil Richards wrote in message ET...
Kevin wrote:

I really don't see this coming off. A few late over running
engineering works and you wont see the first underground trains until
after 8am. I can see London businesses tolerating that just so a few
party goers on a Friday night don't need to get a taxi home.

A "few" party goers? According to the figures on the BBC site 140,000
would use a later running tube service. 55,000 use the tube on during the
first hour of the weekend.

But typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

So your solution would be?

And what about the second hour. My comment was for late running
engineering work, not the fact that between 5.30 and 6.30 the tube is
hardly used.
My solution is that people go home earlier.
I can see this idea causing considerable problems for workers getting
into work for Saturday morning, and travellers with early departures.
It will will boil down to has more clout. The retail industry having
problems getting workers in on Saturday morning and the hospitality
industry because it can't stay open until some unearthly hour.
Kevin

Kevin wrote:

So your solution would be?

And what about the second hour. My comment was for late running
engineering work, not the fact that between 5.30 and 6.30 the tube is
hardly used.

Late running engineering work would have to be tackled the same way as it
is at present. What we are effectively looking at is having the same
length of time in which to let the engineers do their work as they have
present. In a nutshell it's unacceptable that possessions overrun in the
first place and I would guess as with the TOCs and Network Rail there is
some sort of financial penalty. For the passenger it means they are
delayed in getting to work, just the same as when the system screws
itself up at 8am on a weekday morning for example.

My solution is that people go home earlier.

As long as the bars and clubs are open, people will stay there. They will
find a way home.

I can see this idea causing considerable problems for workers getting
into work for Saturday morning, and travellers with early departures.
It will will boil down to has more clout.

Those with early departures? OK for flights, early long distance trains
coaches etc. then they will have to take in to account these details when
arranging their journey. I've caught Eurostar from Waterloo from
where I live in North London well before the tube opens up. Easy answer,
it's called a Night Bus.

The retail industry having problems getting workers in on Saturday
morning

Of course shops have different opening hours. Most don't open until 9,
many in Central London (including where I work) don't open until 10.
Sundays it's either 10 or 11. You're really trying to say by postponing
the tube start up from 05:30-ish to 06:30-ish will prevent people from
getting to work on time?

What I keep stressing is not gain an hour at the end of the day at the
expense of an hour the next morning twice per week simply because the
engineers need access to the line for every hour of every night. Why
can't we close the system down an hour at the weekend or two later then
re-open the times they currently do the next morning? The engineers etc.
need to adapt, make their operations fit around the service pattern, not
vice-versa.

--
Phil Richards
Strod Green, London
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Phil Richards wrote in message ET...
Kevin wrote:

So your solution would be?

And what about the second hour. My comment was for late running
engineering work, not the fact that between 5.30 and 6.30 the tube is
hardly used.

Late running engineering work would have to be tackled the same way as it
is at present. What we are effectively looking at is having the same
length of time in which to let the engineers do their work as they have
present. In a nutshell it's unacceptable that possessions overrun in the
first place and I would guess as with the TOCs and Network Rail there is
some sort of financial penalty. For the passenger it means they are
delayed in getting to work, just the same as when the system screws
itself up at 8am on a weekday morning for example.

Lets face it, they wont be able to prevent overruns. At least at
present, if the service starts an hour late the service does start
before the main peak. If the start is now an hour later and there is
an hour overun it will be a complete f**kup



Those with early departures? OK for flights, early long distance trains
coaches etc. then they will have to take in to account these details when
arranging their journey. I've caught Eurostar from Waterloo from
where I live in North London well before the tube opens up. Easy answer,
it's called a Night Bus.

If I need to get into London for 8am even now it is touch and go if I
will trust the tube. Absolutely zero chance if this comes in. Look out
for far more car usage.

Of course shops have different opening hours. Most don't open until 9,
many in Central London (including where I work) don't open until 10.
Sundays it's either 10 or 11. You're really trying to say by postponing
the tube start up from 05:30-ish to 06:30-ish will prevent people from
getting to work on time?

And shelf stackers, warehouse people. I bet there aren't many shop
workers arrive 5 minutes before opening time.
What I keep stressing is not gain an hour at the end of the day at the
expense of an hour the next morning twice per week simply because the
engineers need access to the line for every hour of every night. Why
can't we close the system down an hour at the weekend or two later then
re-open the times they currently do the next morning? The engineers etc.
need to adapt, make their operations fit around the service pattern, not
vice-versa.

This is all interesting but I will lay odds that the London retail
industry won't put up with it.
Kevin

Kevin wrote:

If I need to get into London for 8am even now it is touch and go if I
will trust the tube. Absolutely zero chance if this comes in. Look out
for far more car usage.

What day of the week are we talking about? Sunday, possibly you might not
be arrive in Central London from the furthest parts of the Tube. Other
days of the week should be no problem.

And shelf stackers, warehouse people. I bet there aren't many shop
workers arrive 5 minutes before opening time.

Like the transport industry staff work round the clock including nights.

This is all interesting but I will lay odds that the London retail
industry won't put up with it.

Only if the retail industry starts to loose customers through the door
and money in the till. That's not likely to happen because of the plans
to the revised tube operations. The staff employed to start early (or
finish late) will find their way in to work some way (Night buses for
example) if Tube travel is impossible. Otherwise they'll leave and seek
work elsewhere.

--
Phil Richards
Stroud Green, London
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Kevin wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 24 Nov 2004:

Lets face it, they wont be able to prevent overruns. At least at
present, if the service starts an hour late the service does start
before the main peak. If the start is now an hour later and there is
an hour overun it will be a complete f**kup

But *is* there a main peak on a Saturday or Sunday morning? AIUI, this
proposal is for Friday and Saturday nights, not Sunday nights.

If I need to get into London for 8am even now it is touch and go if I
will trust the tube. Absolutely zero chance if this comes in. Look out
for far more car usage.

Again, how often do you need to be in London at 8.00 am on a Saturday or
Sunday?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004