(Kevin) wrote in message . com...

My solution is that people go home earlier.

Fantasic. Why not take it further... people shouldn't go out at all,
and then we wouldn't need buses or a tube and all the roads would be
empty. Problem solved!

But in all seriousness, if there is a demand for public transport late
at night (even if going out late at night isn't *your* cup of tea)
then it seems only sensible that the demand should be satisfied where
possible.

D.

Kevin wrote:

If I need to get into London for 8am even now it is touch and go if I
will trust the tube. Absolutely zero chance if this comes in. Look out
for far more car usage.

What day of the week are we talking about? Sunday, possibly you might not
be arrive in Central London from the furthest parts of the Tube. Other
days of the week should be no problem.

And shelf stackers, warehouse people. I bet there aren't many shop
workers arrive 5 minutes before opening time.

Like the transport industry staff work round the clock including nights.

This is all interesting but I will lay odds that the London retail
industry won't put up with it.

Only if the retail industry starts to loose customers through the door
and money in the till. That's not likely to happen because of the plans
to the revised tube operations. The staff employed to start early (or
finish late) will find their way in to work some way (Night buses for
example) if Tube travel is impossible. Otherwise they'll leave and seek
work elsewhere.

--
Phil Richards
Stroud Green, London
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Kevin wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 24 Nov 2004:

Lets face it, they wont be able to prevent overruns. At least at
present, if the service starts an hour late the service does start
before the main peak. If the start is now an hour later and there is
an hour overun it will be a complete f**kup

But *is* there a main peak on a Saturday or Sunday morning? AIUI, this
proposal is for Friday and Saturday nights, not Sunday nights.

If I need to get into London for 8am even now it is touch and go if I
will trust the tube. Absolutely zero chance if this comes in. Look out
for far more car usage.

Again, how often do you need to be in London at 8.00 am on a Saturday or
Sunday?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004

1) 52 days off isnt for drivers as asked above. Station staff only. And its
actually payback for hours worked. (In arrears and if you are off sick they
dont accumulate so you get less time off). As it should be.
2) 4 day week is off the agenda - it wont happen.
3) Anyone want to come down on the tube for the after midnight travellers is
more than welcome. Just buy a ticket and stand at the gates at
say...Brixton. Its not a petty site.
5) No amount of money compensates for the spit, vomit, excrement, abuse. It
does however make it easier to cope with as it buys a lifestyle.
6) No....(i know what most are thinking). Why should tube staff be forced to
leave a job just because a minority of the travelling public cant behave.
Try shouting/spitting at your pub bouncer.....
7) Why cant we be like other city transit/metros. No eating or drinking
while travelling. Opps forgot, no one to enforce it.
8) Suprisingly they get lots of support when on industrial action. Really.
Honest. They do.
9) Just cos the BBC says they have half the population wanting to use the
tube at 2am dont mean its correct. Didnt they say something about Iraq...or
a scientist once.
10) I think Saturday nights/Sunday mornings are a bit quiet when it comes to
the PPP boys and overnight engineering works. An hour extra here probably
wouldnt hurt a great deal. (Sorry T/Ops...its a bit of give and take)!
11) All the lines have night shift T/Ops already, the frequency of the
service at that hour extra probably wouldn't require a huge increase in
T/Ops on duty....Station staff are another story...minimum requirement for
manning and all that.
12) There is no number 12

Mal....



"Fustanella" wrote in message
...
the coming months. If approved, services would be extended by the end of

How can it be called being "extended" when the closed hours are just
shifting?

1)

The 12 points you gave in reply to me don't seem to touch on my
question. Could you narrow 'em down, please? Thanks.

"redtube" wrote in message ...
"Chris" wrote in message
om...
I thought it was in the bye-laws that you can't be intoxicated and
travel on the tube

er interesting concept but not likely to be true otherwise there would be
nobody on the trains after midnight!

"4. Intoxication and possession of intoxicating liquor
(1) No person in a state of intoxication shall enter or remain on the
railway.
(2) Where reasonable notice is, or has been given prohibiting
intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any
intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such train
with intoxicating liquor with him.
(3) Where an authorised person reasonably believes that any person is
in a state of intoxication or has with him intoxicating liquor
contrary to this Byelaw, the authorised person may:
(i) require him to leave the railway; and
(ii) prevent him entering or remaining on the railway until the
authorised person is satisfied that he has no intoxicating liquor with
him. "

From http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/about/byelaw.asp

From my experience, most staff of leisure places open beyond midnight
get a taxi paid for by their place of work so most of the travellers
are revellers and most are drunk

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, redtube wrote:


"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...
redtube wrote:

"A plan to run London Underground services for an extra hour on Friday
and Saturday nights will be put to Londoners, the Mayor has said.

What decent people travel home at that hour anyway?

Me. I have an experiment to do at midnight tonight.

tom

--
Understand the world we're living in

On 24 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
On 23 Nov 2004, Kevin wrote:

typical of this country to treat the symptom and not the cause.

Which is what? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

The problem is with the fact that you can't get a taxi after 9pm let
alone midnight unless it is an illegal minicab and if you are a woman
you stand a good chence of getting attacked by the minicab driver. With
taxi drivers (legal) making more than enough money working 9 to 5 they
wont work during the night. And Ken Livinstone has done what to help
this situation.

I think we have another problem here, which is that YOU ARE INSANE.

The real problem is most definitely *not* that i can't get a taxi home. I
don't want to get a taxi home! I want cheap, simple public transport home!
I don't want to stick a tenner in some fat, racist, cyclist-murdering
arsehole's pocket just so i can sleep in my own bed!

The real cause is that our tube system requires far too much maintenance;
the solution is to replace or renew the entire thing, with good-quality,
well-designed tracks, trains and signals, and with enough redundancy that
parts can be taken out of service without shutting the whole thing down
(either New-York-style quadruple tubes, triple tubes, or some way of
closing one of the pair of tubes and wrong-railing the trains past it).
Sadly, this would cost about 2 to 2.5 hojillion pounds, so we can't do it.
Therefore, we resort to palliative care, viz later tube opening.

tom

ps No offence, Mr Hughes!

--
Understand the world we're living in

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Phil Richards wrote:

Why can't we close the system down an hour at the weekend or two later
then re-open the times they currently do the next morning? The engineers
etc. need to adapt, make their operations fit around the service
pattern, not vice-versa.

Exactly! And let's have daily status reports until the situation improves!
And why not halve the costs while they're at it!

I don't want to take time away from the engineers - i want to have a tube
network that runs safely and efficiently, and that means giving them
everything they need to do their job, which includes time.

Which said, as someone mentioned, they aren't making much use of the
saturday/sunday shutdown, so let's see if we can wring a couple of hours
out of that.

What if the overnight possessions could be done in a more focused way?
Rather than closing every line for five hours (or however long it is)
every night, close a couple of lines every night, perhaps even for a bit
longer, and stuff them to the gills with navvies to make the most of it.
That way, people could use the admirable flexibility of the tube network
to get around. A halfway house would be to close every line only from 0300
to 0500, to give the engineers time do basic stuff like walking the line,
replacing those clip things that always break, picking up bits of trains
that have fallen off, etc, and to have one night a week on each line of
closing at 2300, to do the real work. If you ignore the W&C, which closes
all sunday anyway, and the circle, which closes whenever another
subsurface line closes, there are ten lines - you could close two each
school night, and have friday and saturday nights closure-free. Would that
be enough time to do what needs to be done?

tom

--
Understand the world we're living in

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Malcolm & Nika wrote:

1)

I'd just like to say that i STRONGLY APPROVE of posts in point form. Well
done that man!

tom

--
Understand the world we're living in